A POSITIVE Emerging Illustration

Precisely, as pointed out on page 1 of this long drawn out thread, it appears that this church in the article wreaks of PD Theology. Church attendance and Catholic fellowship are just a couple. That has the mark of RW all over it. Just an observation.

 

And I wouldn't agree to that....

You can see the RW's hand in a lot of churches, they may not be full blown "PD", but they have adopted some of the same ideas.

 

Because they are not biblical. The Church needs to be about preaching the Gospel and caring for the sheep, not going out and cleaning barbershops in a futile attempt to 'draw' people into a church where they can hear the 'gospel'. Churches should not become preoccupied with doing menial things to ease their consciences, but should rather be about the Lord's work. Many of us are so opposed to this type of ministry because of the undertones. This ministry is essentially saying , "God can't save with his gospel anymore, we need to help him out.'

 

It is showing that we care enough about a person!
It is needs based evangelism...

And it is Biblical...

Christ cared and shared!

He didn't just stand a scream at the sinners. Now that is not Biblical..

And I went throught th 40 days of purpose, and the the PD church...
and it is Biblical.

Every purpose (5 of them) are what the church's should be about...
Please, since you are so wise, show me where the church should not:

Evangelize
Worship
Fellowship
Disciple
And Minister to those in need.

And a balanced church will do all 5.
The problem with modern day IFBs (some) is they emphasize Evangelism over the other 5...

The church in Acts had all five... go read the Bible Acts 2:42-the end of the chapter... and you will find all 5 purposes in the church...

The problem with you RW/PD, emerging haters is this:
YOu know your church should be doing all five purposes... but you won't admit it! God has told you, and you get your toes stepped on, and go off ready to kill the messenger instead of repenting and helping those in need...

Face it, the emerging church and PD churches are getting the jobs done, while you PD haters hide in your churches that have 4 walls and refuse to help others that need you! All the while, cramming your hate filled doctrine down your peon's throats..

Don't believe me?
How long has it been that you heard a preacher preach we should help the poor widow down the road, vs preaching against PD, emergent, versions, etc...

Sorry, but this slamming of others that are winning souls to Christ just because they are not like you wreaks of envy...

What churches are growing?
God didn't call a church to not grow...

Go win souls... don't complain about others that do.

 

Go into all the world and preach the Gospel...

And that even means barbershops...
ooops He chose us to help him out.

 

On the surface that looks really good, but just below lies the "ecunemical side" of the entire thing. It doesn't matter what you believe, just fill a pew in a church somewhere. Catholics, Protestants, Muslims alike can all learn and use the PDC format to reshape their congregation and bring more people to "god". Looks really good on the surface though, RW is making an impact, What am I doing, right?

RW is the CEO of a large business in North America that has divisions throughout the world and subdivisions and distribution centers all over North America. He is "America's Pastor" and a corporate wiz and a marketing genius. He runs a business and the business is bring people together to stuff the church.

 

Tim: one is missing and it is very important in the NT: to build up the body. Also, when the Holy Spirit sent Philip to the Ethiopian, the direction were not to find out his needs and meet them, but simply to walk alongside. Yes, we are to respond to needs, but if people are attracted to Christianity simply because we feed and clothe them, we are no better than Mother Theresa. We MUST care for those in the body, yes. But caring for the outside world, as strange as this seems, has to come second. In Matthew 25, Jesus rewarded the 'sheep' for caring for the BROTHERS of Christ -- those adopted into the family.

I don't know about a 'balanced' church, but a Christ-led church will focus on Christ Himself. The followers will be raised up and matured in the Word, sharing the benefits of their gifts with one another. There will be learning and worship and supporting one another. Then there will be outreach as the Holy Spirit directs, not as a Board of Directors directs.

While I agree strongly with you regarding the overriding emphasis on evangelism to the detriment of everything else, from what Barry and I have seen in our talks at different Christian churches, the basic condition of each of them is ignorance of the Bible and immaturity of most of the believers. The one church we were really impressed with was in New Zealand. It was a Brethren church, where Barry was invited to give the sermon about a year and a half ago. They invited us back that evening and the questions they asked showed remarkable knowledge of Bible and science both among the men and women both there. We were impressed and gratified that God had ONE church we had visited where the people were truly knowledgeable regarding the Bible, generally mature spiritually, and truly lovely to be with.

If we do not pay attention to the condition of the individual churches and the folks in them, any evangelizing or even worship will be half-hearted, somewhat ignorant, and occasionally foolish.

Christianyouth: "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" Romans 10:14

And, then, of course, in the next verse: "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" The good news being the Gospel, which is what "gospel" means...

 

The problem is not with just some modern day IBF"S the problems could be found in many denominations. Soemtimes I see alot of blame for what is or isn't happening first directed at IBF's and KJVO's. It is not just a IBF problem. There are many types of churches who do not do all five. I know you said some but you did not list any other denominations with that, so I hope you are noy saying that only IBF"s are to blame for all five of these PD directives (which are really Bible directives) not being met.

 

Now that is a topic I haven't addressed in awhile, "The bain of the purpose-driven menace on God's elect."

 

Welcome back Helen...
I agree our first responsibility is to help those in our church.. but then we have to show how much we care before people will listen.

And 4boys4joys, the reason i listed IFB is because on this board the only ones that complain against RW or PD is IFBs...
If I am wrong, show me... i am not above apologizing..

Show me someone else that is as loud as the IFBS against RW and PDC.
And BTW, I am willing to work along side other denominations to win souls... I notice you are not. Muslims is not a denomination, but a whole different religion... (RCC is too)

 

Add my reformed, calvinist, fundamental voice to outcry.

Edit: I almost forgot about Calvary Chapel's formal stance against the PD

 

The purpose driven garbage is just that. I am not sure that I have seen nor heard of anyone standing on a street corner screaming at people in order to evangelize. I am betting that this is a caracature and not reality. Preaching the gospel without any direct service can most certainly be just as effective. But to say that serving a lost community is in error and unbiblical is not based on any scripture found in God's written Word. What it actually says is that we and God loves them. I have to wonder about anyone who would be against any type of service to the community.

 

I'm not saying we shouldn't evangelize. I have just yet to see any evidence that a church should occupy itself with cleaning barber shops and mowing lawns.