A question about leading others to the Lord

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by annsni, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. annsni

    annsni
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    I was doing a round about searching on the internet and came to a certain pastor's site who was once a member here. I read how they go out "soul winning" every weekend and how they had 47 people saved this weekend, 20 something another day, etc. When someone asked how many of those came to the church after that, they made fun of him as if the idea of follow up is a joke. I don't know what they mean by "saved", though. Is it people who pray a prayer with them? Is that an accurate number of those who are "saved"? I did post and ask if they do any discipleship with any of these and was promptly banned from the site. Our church has had numerous people saved too but I know an important part of our ministry is discipleship and follow-up - making sure that we're not just making false converts but that these people have the real opportunity for growth.

    I don't know. There's something about the whole thing that seems...false..to me. What are your thoughts? Can you truly "save" people by going out on the streets and talking to them and getting them to pray a prayer? What if they're just doing it to get rid of these weirdos yet they're saying "Yea! We got 50 people saved this month!" like it's a contest or something!
     
  2. North Carolina Tentmaker

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    Well yes and no. There is something fake about it and many of those conversions are probably fake, but can you tell me which ones?

    What you are talking about is the natural progression of "easy believism" that breaks salvation down to a prayer you can recite and then you are saved. No repentance, no remorse, no change, just recite this prayer.

    Whether it takes place while soul winning with a Jack Hyles type church or at a Billy Graham style crusade the result is the same. Some people actually trust Christ, but they are abandoned as babes in Christ with no discipleship or training. Others recite a prayer or walk and aisle and feel real good for a few days but there is no change in their life or heart and within a few days or perhaps weeks they realize this and go back to the way they were. Then you have the real problem, some people recite the prayer and actually put their faith in that prayer. They have not put their faith in Christ, to them reciting the "sinner's prayer" is not different than any other good work and their faith is still based on their own works, not on Christ. These people are still lost, but now they think they are saved.

    Then the soul winners are often in the same condition, putting their faith in their works of which winning others to Christ is primary. How can they be lost, they got 50 people saved this week. Of course we don't save anyone, I am just saying it like they would. It is a contest with them, to prove they are better than other Christians, and their "fruit" is the proof of their salvation. In the quiet of night when the absence of God in their lives is evident they use this "fruit" to quench the actual Spirit calling them to Christ. I can't be lost, God is using me to save people.

    The scary part is these people think they are doing the Lord's work and to question them is to question God himself.

    Yes I have been there and done that, thankfully I know better now.
     
    #2 North Carolina Tentmaker, Dec 2, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 2, 2008
  3. thegospelgeek

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    Yea, people can get "Saved" (Born Again) like this. Phillip did it with the Etheopian Eunuch. But I doubt if all 50 of these were saved. Some maybe. But if they were they will follow it up in some way.

    It is a bad witness and against scriture to just go out and pray with them, leaving them as unattended sheep. The Great commision isn't to 'Go into ther world and say a prayer with them' But to baptise and make disciples.

    (Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: KJV
     
  4. annsni

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    Yeah - that's my feelings.

    I just watched his example of "soul winning" on YouTube. Now I more fully understand.

    It's honestly about numbers. While I know the video was staged, it's still obvious that it's like a Kirby salesman. LOL

    That's really sad. I can see why no one comes to church afterwards. Because he SAYS that nothing needs to change - you're saved no matter what. Incredibly sad. Jesus said to make disciples - not parrots. :(
     
  5. annsni

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    Didn't the Eunuch approach Phillip though?

    That's what I think and have experienced. You want to somehow keep a contact with them. I even led someone to the Lord online and found a few churches in her area, contacted them and made sure she found one that she was comfortable with. I know that in addition to my doing some discipleship with her online, she's also got people in real life who are feeding into her. I see examples all throughout Scripture of not just making people pray but to disciple them in their walk. To tell them that they don't need to do anything else is very misleading and doing a grave disservice to those who's hearts really are softened to the Lord.
     
  6. Revmitchell

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    Regardless of how you approach the great commission there are those who have a heart prepared to receive the free gift and others do not. One should never believe that a prayer is what saves you. Neither should a prayer at that glorious moment be avoided.
     
  7. thegospelgeek

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    IFRC Phillip approached the Eunuch by the leading of the Holy Spirit. But I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

    EDIT: Looked it up (Act 8:29) Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
     
    #7 thegospelgeek, Dec 2, 2008
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  8. mparkerfd20

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    You wouldn't happen to be talking about this video would you?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXMA4xOS5BY

    Just enough truth mixed in to be convincing and dangerous. Easy believism will lead millions straight through the gates of hell. :tear:
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    Good questions. We might never know who truly are the "saved" on this side of eternity. It seems, given our varying traditions, that this notion of salvation might never truly find a quantitative definition beyond what we can evidence in fruit that is produced.

    One of the most important questions that the evangelical church must answer before becoming fully immersed in this century will be what is our responsibility in regards to the full nature of salvation. We have paraded easy believism above and beyond what we ought. We have scandalized the Gospel too. Suggesting that Christianity is focused on Heaven as our goal seems to negate the necessity for growth beyond a decision point.

    I say this while still holding a firm position that renegeration occurs at the moment of justification. I just believer salvation is more of an umbrella terms that necessarily carries with it justification, sanctification, and glorification as part of it.


    The church has an obligation to provide top level resources for personal spiritual growth for those who they see converted and baptized in their midst. :)

    I can't save anyone. Faith is Jesus given by the grace of God is the justifier that seals the believer. I don't know if I can judge who is in and out, other than seeing who producing fruit. I can only talk with those in my life who are outside of a relationship with Jesus showing them in word and action what the Gospel is. It's up to them to hear the Holy Spirit and respond. I do have an obligation to see them matured in Christ. But it is their decision. :)
     
  10. annsni

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    Yep - you found him. :thumbs:

    He used to post here a while back but was banned relatively quickly. I don't agree with so much of what he says and today I watched the video. It was ALMOST good - he had good Scriptures and such but some of what he added is just wrong. Of course I know from hearing stuff from him, there's more of that, unfortunately. But in watching the video, even though I know it was a man from his own church acting, I still think "Just say "yeah" to get him out of there. He hardly let the other guy get a word in edgewise other than the leading questions he asked. He told him that you don't have to do anything - just believe on Jesus and you don't need to change your life at all. Now, in order to be saved, that's correct - it's only by faith that we are saved - but he's so misleading. Of course people will pray because they're getting fire insurance without having to do anything else. They walk away from him thinking "I'm going to heaven even if I murder someone" when we know that it is not the full truth. There's nothing in there about being a new creation - about sanctification and becoming more and more Christlike. It's sad.
     
  11. TrustingInHim

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    I knew a man who was afraid to send his son to Christian summer camp because of concern that he would be forced to make a profession of faith that wasn't real. My daughter's friend went to Christian camp with her one year and that very thing happened. She now wants nothing to do with Christians or church.

    We should never force anything that the Holy Spirit is not at the center of.

    Some have professed salvation at our church and attempts were made to disciple them, but they still fell away. Here I think it was an emotional experience that lacked true repentance and Holy Spirit conviction on the part of those who were 'saved'.
     
  12. rbell

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    Anyone who would say "We got x people saved," would seem to be clueless as to who really handles it all.
    :jesus:
     
  13. rbell

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    Ahh, good ol' Sanderson.

    I better shut up now...might get me in trouble otherwise. :D
     
  14. annsni

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    LOL - Oh, I know. I know.

    I was so surprised and saddened when I got kicked off their little site. It crushed my spirit.







    :laugh:
     
  15. Jim1999

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    I found over time in order to begin leading one to the Lord, I had to introduce them to what sin is; not sins, but sin. The world is so loose to-day that many totally disregard their sins. It is almost like the old fashioned preaching like Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God...shock and shake and then redeeming grace of a sovereign God.

    I am alway suspcious of great crowds of people coming to the front led by another...I tend to look for the individual coming alone, hesitatingly and humbly.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Amen...............
     
  17. Navymans

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    I have always had a problem with children making a profession of faith, I think it should be handled very carefully with much talking to and listening to them first, those working with these children should spend the time and follow up big time. So many times it is just they are scared into profession without knowing just what it means.
     
  18. gb93433

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    If one makes one disciple every two years and each person makes a disciple every two years then together at the end of 24 years they will reach 4,096 people and each will have been discipled along the way. If the same scenario were present except that one person was discipled each year then they would reach 16,777,216. That numbver is no small number. To reach big numbers it take making disciples not good pew sitters but rather workers who can make disciples.

    Some people talk about how many they win to Christ but they never talk about how can be reached through those who make disciples. The difference is staggering. The quality of the person is incredibly different.

    So much for the joke of follow up.
     
  19. Beth

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    I see what you mean

    It is easy believism.

    Beth
     
  20. Tom Butler

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    We should look to Philip's soul-winning "method" as a guide for us. He never asked the eunuch to pray anything.

    I don't know what Philip said as he explained Isaiah 53, but it obviously wasn't the Roman Road. What we do know is that Philip would not baptize him until he had got this question asked and answered" If you truly believe with all your heart, you may (be baptized."

    The eunuch said simply, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God." No Sinner's prayer here.

    In fact, nowhere in the NT does anyone tell a lost person to "pray to receive Jesus."

    That said, do I believe that if a convicted sinner cries out to God, the Lord will save him? You bet.
     

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