A question concerning gluttony

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by jsn9333, Feb 13, 2008.

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  1. jsn9333

    jsn9333
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    My pastor said something the other day. He said the question isn't how fat is too fat or how many drinks is too many... the question is, "Is my behavior glorifying God?"

    I thought that was a pretty good statement. I was glad he didn't say "don't be fat" and "don't drink more then X drinks". Some people are a little bigger then others, so there is no need to define *exactly* what "fat" means (or how many drinks is too much... since different size people can drink more then others without sinning and being drunk).

    As an aside... I especially was afraid he might say don't drink at all because it is a southern baptist church, and the convention recently released that resolution in "total opposition" to alcohol consumption. I'm glad my pastor apparently does not buy into that un-biblical position. (not to say one personally can not oppose it, but to push such a legalistic statement on the entire Body that is not clear in any way in the Scriptures is just wrong)

    Anyway, sorry, there is a question coming... don't worry! I imagine there are some people on this board very familiar with Jerry Falwell. Does anyone know if he ever preached about gluttony? (I'm sure he preached against alcohol given what my friends have told me about Liberty U.'s policies).

    I'm just curious, because he was a large man. I'm not trying to be insulting. And I'm not saying he was a glutton. But overeating is one of the largest causes of obesity and heart attack in America. I'm just seriously wondering what, if anything, he ever preached to others on the subject.

    Proverbs 28:7 declares, "He who keeps the law is a discerning son, but a companion of gluttons disgraces his father."
    Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, "put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony."
     
  2. Allan

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    One should never attribute a person of large size with gluttony automatically.

    One can gain much to great wieght due to any number of problems like medical conditions, glandular problems, medications, et...
    Actually the problem ISN"T really even over eating but lack of excersize. Our society has developed to the point there is no real need to go outside and work out, play, or anything in such terms. The reason is that we have developed entertainment that can be substituted for it, sitting down and staying inside.

    When I was in the martial arts (Tae kwon do) for 10 years, I worked out consistantly about 3 to 5 hours a day. But I ate 4 to 5 times a day (2 plates each meal and both large helpings each plate, and don't even get me started on the all-you-can-eat buffets :) ) But I maintained a 10 percent body fat ratio. If you are talking about the quantity of food consumed - I would have been considered a glutton though it would be an inaccurate statement. But if you are stating that eating large quantities of food is always synonomous with being large, you are mistaken. It is actaully in realtion to lack of work/excersize NOT over eating. And no, in case you are wondering I do not have a high metabolism. My brother DOES! He can eat like cow, sit around for months doing nothing but not gain 5 pounds.

    Your scripture verses cited are refering to those who are consistantly continuing in something they KNOW is sinful behavior - in essense being rebellious. This is not just one act but an on going behavior. Also a glutton is not just about over eating but taking ANYTHING to extremes.

    Also, you might ask what Spurgeon or Moody preached on the subject, or any other number of Godly men for that matter who were not considered the 'right' weight according to American doctors. The problem with the myth of the 'right' weight is that it does not take into account many factors like large bone structures and muscule mass amoung other things.
     
    #2 Allan, Feb 13, 2008
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  3. donnA

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    Thats like saying only obese people have heart attacks, or only people who over eat have heart attacks. Which isn't true. The people I've known who've had heart attacks haven't been obese people. You don't have to be obese to have heart disease. And everyone who over eats isn't obese.

    http://www.newswithviews.com/Ellison/shane23.htm
     
  4. Tom Bryant

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    I'm not sure why a question about gluttony has to be asked in terms of a dead brother in Christ...

    But I agree that gluttony is an untouched subject. It's one of those "acceptable sins". Being overwieght may not mean that a person eats too much, it may be that they just don't get enough exercise to work off what they eat.

    The better issue may be about how we treat the temple of God, our body.
     
  5. Palatka51

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    The modern connotation of gluttony is not the same as the Biblical connotation. Our modern society has become sedimentary. Plus dietary habits are more apt to have high levels of saturated fats than those in Biblical times. The folks of the Bible did every thing on their feet. If you went to the market, you walked. Your income was one of two occupations farming or shepherding. If your occupation was that of a carpenter :jesus: you stayed in shape by sawing and chopping wood. I don't think that Jesus had a Skill Saw or a Pouland Chain Saw. (Come to think of it, I do not know any obese carpenters in our modern times either). If you were rich you saddled your ass or horse to go to market or to your business, which in and of itself is extreme exercise.

    Gluttony as the Bible saw it is much what we see with today's people that have an eating disorder. The act of eating until you can eat no more and then regurgitating and then returning to eat again. The all you can eat competitions that are popular these days could fall under this description.

    BTW,
    I totally disagree with you on that above statement.
     
  6. donnA

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    This is true. Many people who are not over weight, or by only 5 or 10 pounds, treat their bodies bad, but you never hear about them, only the over weight ones.
     
    #6 donnA, Feb 13, 2008
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  7. saturneptune

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    It is not the amount or size, its the attitude. If a sermon has been preached on the evils of alcohol and everyone there feels self righteous,and after the service immediately sits down at a pot luck and stuffs themselves so much they cannot even walk, and wink at each other and make jokes about it, now that is sin.
     
  8. jsn9333

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    I take you you never heard Falwell on the subject then? I'm just curious as to how he felt about it...

    I might add I made sure to note I am not accusing him of being a glutton. I'm simply asking if anyone knows how he viewed the scriptures about the topic.

    Also, I'll repeat that I said overeating is *one* of the problems (concerning heart attack and obesity). Lack of exercise is certainly one of the problems too (at last as big as the over eating problem). But there are a lot of obese construction workers and laborers in this country who are active all day but then sit down to a 6 pack, two pizzas, and a huge bowl of ice cream every night who are obese.

     
  9. jsn9333

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    I think he is a large enough figure in the modern Christian era to be able to discuss his views (perhaps even critically) without being charged with "offending the dead" or whatever may be implied below.

    The question isn't about gluttony as much as it is about Falwell. I'm curious as to what he taught on the subject. I'm not trying to insult him (just like he wasn't trying to insult the hundreds if not thousands of brothers in christ who die fighting terrorists when he, essentially, said who they're fighting the wrong people... it is the gays and lesbians who brought down the towers).

    That being said, I do agree there seems to be some hypocrisy in the way the church treats gluttony. I'm not saying there is hypocrisy in the way falwell did, b/c I don't know how he did... that is what I'm trying to find out.

     
    #9 jsn9333, Feb 13, 2008
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  10. jsn9333

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    You don't have to drink until you throw up to be, biblically speaking, a drunkard or someone who is addicted to wine. I think a pattern of lesser abuse can lead to the same result... the abuse of the temple and the disgrace of the Father. You can harm your liver, or you can stumble around drunk... all without being "throwing up" drunk.

    I believe gluttony is similar. If you are addicted to food such that you eat it in ways that amount to harming your body... I would call that gluttony. Actual regurgitation is not a necessary requirement in order to commit gluttony.

     
  11. tinytim

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    I have a take on this from experience...
    I am a pretty big guy... I am losing weight, but it is tough...

    I am using the weight watchers points system, and one thing I found out was not that I was eating alot (being gluttonous) as much as it was the fact I was eating the wrong type of food...

    IOWS... I can have a big salad, with fat free dressing, a bowl of progresso soup.. .(the type with no points) and a turkey, cheese, lettuce, tomato, fat free mayo, sandwich made on 35 calorie bread for around 10-12 points

    or, I can have one quarterpounder with fries for 24 points...
    And when I have only 33 points to use in a days time, I am actually eating more of the good stuff, and staying full than I was eating fast food.
    Plus I have lost 16 pounds since Jan 1!

    I have also slowed down and am enjoying my meals...
    So I am eating more than I used to, and losing weight.
    Weird huh?

    Another thing that is contributing to weight gain in America is the fact that we are moving from the industrial age to the information age...

    Ever wonder why preachers have a hard time with their weight... Here is my take on this..

    I started noticing my weight gain when I was working as an parent locator in the WV child support agency. It was hard work... I had a caseload of over 3000 deadbeat parents I was doing skiptracing on. But most of my work was at a desk.

    It was mentally exhausting. So by the time I got home of the evening I was exhausted... I wasn't burning the calories I was taking in, but my brain was so tired, I was so mentally bushed, I couldn't do anything physical.

    I have heard people say that desk work is not really working... I disagree.
    And as we move into the information age, there are more desk workers now than there were yrs ago.
    So now I am a pastor, again, a lot of brain work, not a lot of physical labor, but at the same time I get just as tired.

    I have to make myself exercise... and I HATE IT!!!. After a long day, I am mentally tired, and have no desire to work somemore!

    Anyway, that is my take on it...

    To me gluttony goes along with laziness...
    much more than with weight gain.

    Gluttony involves the lack being a good steward. Getting as much as you can because it is there.. not planning for the future, and trying to get something without working for it. It involves lack of self control, and the proper use of moderation....

    A skinny person can be a glutton also..
    A shop-a-holic is a glutton... the more things they buy the better they feel.
     
  12. Crabtownboy

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    Gluttony

    Gluttony is one of Americas favorite and most tolerated sins.
     
  13. Isaiah40:28

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    I thought this was an excellent post, Tim. You are spot-on.
    To be a glutton, does not require that one be overweight.
    I'm gluttonous much of the time and I'm a stick.
    I eat the wrong junk and am not careful at all about what I personally consume. But for my family, I work to provide healthy and nutrituous meals, even though I supplement that with the "overprocessed" and "chemically designed" stuff for myself throughout the day.

    Very insightful.
     
  14. Palatka51

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    Tim,

    You are this threads 5 star poster. I also am a large fellow and sense I have been out of work for foot surgery I have added 15 lbs to my girth. Have I over eaten? No, However I have been immobile for the best of 4 months. When I return to work I expect to loose 15 to 20 lbs. This notion that all obese people are gluttons is sad.
     
  15. jsn9333

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    Great job losing the weight! That is awesome. You made some excellent points in your post.

    To apply your weight watchers facts to alcohol... someone who drinks a glass or two of wine with dinner is not a drunkard. Shoot... I know men who's doctors have advised them to do that for their heart. However, if they had a glass or two of whiskey... now that would be a problem. That would be a drunkard... b/c that is the amount of alcohol in like 4 to 8 glasses of wine! (I'm talking about actual glasses of whiskey, not shots).

    Like you said, food is the same way, there are fatty foods that are very bad for you to eat, and there are foods that are good to eat. I believe that has a lot to do with gluttony, even in the biblical sense. The fact that there are healthy and unhealthy foods is not a new concept. After thinking about what you said, I remember that Daniel is praised for avoiding the delicacies of the king and eating vegetables instead. Even though he might have eaten less of the delicacies, it likely still would've been gluttony since he'd probably have been eating a ton of very fatty food. It is a question of stewardship and taking care of your body, not so much a question of how much food you eat.

    So I think what you've said is a very good insight. I'm not sure that shopping compulsions and the like can be called gluttony. But that is just a technical disagreement about the definition of the word. I personally would just call that lack of self control. But you're right, the two are very closely related.

    Thanks for your post,

     
  16. Aaron

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    I'm going to say the unpopular things . . .

    A person's weight is directly related to how much he eats. Period. Yes, yes, I know. One's person metabolism may burn a little hotter, and some people are more active than others, but the bottom line is the quantity of food. (And I gotta say that the accusations against those who can eat more without putting on a lot of pounds smack of envy.)

    Does anyone remember when a large coke at McDonald's was the size of the small one today? A small was what they now call a child's size. Remember when the Big Mac was a huge burger? Remember when regular Coke bottle only held 8 ounces?

    Today, a guy can go into QuikTrip and buy a 64 ounce "cup" for a fountain drink!

    We have gone the way of Sodom not only in our sexual morality, but in the area of food as well . . . Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy . . . Ezekiel 16:49 (NIV).

    Guys, the problem isn't the food itself, but our inordinate desire for it. If you are inactive, and can exist on a leaf of lettuce a day, then eat your leaf of lettuce, be thankful, and say no to your strong desire for food for the rest of the day.

    If you're active and you must consume a side of beef a day to keep your engine running, then consume your side of beef and be thankful. (And you lettuce guys, don't envy the beef guys.)

    But quantity of food is the bottom line, guys. Never saw a picture of a fat guy in prisoner of war camp.
     
  17. MB

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    Hi JNS9333;

    Like others have said Gluttony is not about size. I did a study on it once and found that it seems that Gluttony is actually when a man becomes so selfish that he eats all he can to keep others from having it. Gluttony is actually selfishness and one can be a glutton with anything and not just food. Pig's are gluttons. I've seen pigs climb up and lay down on top of the food to keep other pigs from eating it. Gluttony is an obsession to have all of what ever the persons desires most.
    You mention Jerry Falwell. I have to admit that it is difficult for me to learn disapline from someone who isn't disaplined himself. I believe that we should take care of our bodies after all we only have one.
    MB
     
  18. DonnaMartinez

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    Exactly. I am exceptionally overweight and I do have a medical reason for it. I have PCOS which is a problem for women. There are extremely off hormones of all kinds adtributed to it, and many women with it are overweight. In fact my weight can fluxuate (sp?) over 20 lbs in just one day (overnight) because of it.

    But I do agree that it irritates me when people speak of oh men shouldnt have long hair or this or that is wrong and they're a glutton.
     
  19. Palatka51

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    So, there can be no Grace for the over weight then. We are going to hell. And the diet that should be forced upon the over weighted should be that of the prisoner of war's menu. :rolleyes: As i recall the POW was served rice water and sawdust. You're a real nice guy Aaron.
     
  20. tinytim

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    Aaron, I demonstrated in my previous post that I am eating more, and losing weight... back up and read that part...

    A person concerned about weight gain should worry about both the amount and the nutritional value of what they are eating...

    I blew it today... I took my wife out for chinese food for lunch... I ate 1 plateful of food, and some fruit, but now I have no more points for the rest of the day.. .so I will be going over today. But hey, it's valentines day.. it's worth it.

    I agree that serving sizes have slowly increased since the 70s.. that is one thing that is hard comprehending with this diet... I am used to a bowlful of icecream... about a cup and half... but a serving size is much smaller... 1/2 cup. so you are right about that...
     
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