A Scholarly defense of our healthcare system

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by rbell, Aug 4, 2009.

  1. rbell

    rbell
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    No, it ain't perfect. Nothing is.

    But this Stanford Medical School professor gets it: http://www.hoover.org/publications/digest/49525427.html

    Summary: Ten reasons the US healthcare system is better off than you're told...

    1. Americans have better survival rates than Europeans for common cancers.
    2. Americans have lower cancer mortality rates than Canadians.
    3. Americans have better access to treatment for chronic diseases than patients in other developed countries.
    4. Americans have better access to preventive cancer screening than Canadians.
    5. Lower-income Americans are in better health than comparable Canadians.
    6. Americans spend less time waiting for care than patients in Canada and the United Kingdom.
    7. People in countries with more government control of health care are highly dissatisfied and believe reform is needed.
    8. Americans are more satisfied with the care they receive than Canadians.
    9. Americans have better access to important new technologies such as medical imaging than do patients in Canada or Britain.
    10. Americans are responsible for the vast majority of all health care innovations.
    Now THAT'S good stuff...in fact, that kind of stuff simply slams the door on DoctObama.
    Holy smoke...when you read the link in full...wow. Someone send this guy to Washington. That would be the last we'd hear of The People's Republic of Healthcare.
     
  2. Nonsequitur

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    Don't you get it yet? We aren't supposed to be better. We have to dum' ourselves down to the rest of the world. What's wrong with you? :laugh:
     
  3. shinninglight

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    I hate to say this but Canadians have a greater overall life expectancy then Americans. Sorry to blow your bubble.

    See what happens when you eat seal meat and hunt bear........and climb mountains........and breath fresh air............and eat good food..............not the fried, greasy garbage served in your restaurants. No wonder America has a critical obesity problem.

    Eat seal meat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  4. Nonsequitur

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    I buy Easter Seals.....does that count?
     
  5. sag38

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    Hey shinning, why do you want to come on this site and insult the U.S.? Go away troll.........
     
  6. rbell

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    It's "burst" your bubble. Sorry to unmix your metaphor.

    So, all Canadians do what you describe? I probably know a hundred folks from your country, if not more; I don't know of any of them who do what you say. I knew a guy from Liberia, who had an ingrown toenail....but all Liberians, I doubt, have bad toenails. It's called "overgeneralizing," and it's usually an ineffective debate tactic (not to mention immature, and a putoff to others).

    Based upon your attitude, I would guess you've been trying to eat the bear and seal before it was cooked. That would explain your grumpiness and social issues.

    If you will read the title again, you will see it says "Scholarly defense." Childish rants aren't scholarly. Neither are unsubstantiated claims in response to measured and statistically-proven ones.
     
  7. Robert Snow

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    Where is the insult? I did not see it unless you are talking about the comment that Canadians live longer than Americans. This isn't an insult. It is a fact, at least according to Shinning. If he is wrong, show the error instead of throwing an insult.
     
  8. rbell

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    any other off-topic, unsubstantiated comments, or does someone want to deal with the facts presented in the OP?
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    I'm convinced our healthcare system needs an overhaul. When half of your bills go to pay for bloated healthcare beauracracy we have a problem.

    We do have amazing resources and facilities available here, but too many Americans don't have access to them. Go tell the member of my congregation who's employer cut his health insurance down so much that he wasn't able to get a necessary operation. Rather he and his wife flew over to India and paid 1/5 for the same care and facilities. He is doing terrifically well. Yet he would never have gotten that operation with the system the way things are now.

    Some of the above points are good but have nothing to do with the pressing healthcare situation. Why should we have the best facilities when fully half of our population is shut off from them?

    I'm a fan of healthcare reform. I believe it is a fundamental duty of a civilized society to provide resources for its citizens so they might better live and enjoy life. We have more resources than any country, yet have created a dangerous class system that locks people away from the promise of our founding documents.

    Personally I believe it should be the Church who takes on these kinds of social welfare programs but since the Church is more concerned with taller steeples, larger buildings, and political power it falls to our secular leaders to make tough decisions. In this one thing we can provide some essential services for those who don't have the same playing field as the rest of us. I just believe we should make the sacrifice and provide first for those unable in a meaningful way.

    I speak this humbly and with the knowledge that it is a minority opinion around here. :)
     
  10. Revmitchell

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    It has not ever, ever, been proven that any fix to the health care system has to include a government, welfare, social program. Such ideologies comes from neomarxism that is being pushed right now by all the neomarxists in the whitehouse.
     
  11. shinninglight

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    PreachinJesus, congratulations for a fine statement that hits it on the nail.
    You have redeemed my faith in the American public that not all is lost. There is hope for you Yanks and fine southern folk. Notice how I seperate them. Always have to recognize the Blue and Grey.

    There are some Americans on this board that are deep thinkers. <pa deleted-LE>
     
    #11 shinninglight, Aug 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2009
  12. redwards

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    So, does your feel for the need of healthcare reform include this?
    The House Education and Labor Markup: Making a Bad Bill Worse
    (Scroll down to the paragraph titled 'Taxpayer-Funded Abortion')

    The Senate Health Bill: Chock-Full of Bad Health Policy
    (Scroll down to the paragraph titled 'Covering Abortion')

    'Cause if the Obamacare(less) plan passes, look for your tax dollars to fund abortion on demand!
    And once the government begins to pay for snuffing out life at its beginning, can government sanctioned snuffing out life at the end (for whatever reason) be far behind?
     
  13. rbell

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    comment retratced.

    Now....back to the OP...
     
    #13 rbell, Aug 5, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2009
  14. shinninglight

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    RBELL quotes...."What a profoundly bigoted post."

    Sir, I'm insulted by your comment. I simply wanted to seperate the two terms knowing full well that the south are not yanks. The north are yanks and the south is the south. Please correct me if I am wrong. You are all Americans, am I not correct.


    Whats OP?
     
  15. rbell

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    I jumped to an erroneous conclusion. I apologize, and I have edited my post as such.


    OP is "opening post," shorthand for "back on original topic."
     
  16. shinninglight

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    Thanks RBELL. Your a true gentlemen.. I'm done with this thread. This is too intense for me....according to my publicly funded doctor(really I pay for it through my taxes). Public/Private, who cares, we all pay for it.
     
    #16 shinninglight, Aug 5, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2009
  17. preachinjesus

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    What does my post have to do with any of this? Perhaps you could respond to my post rather than run off on some wild tangent that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

    I've stated my position on these issues plenty.:smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. redwards

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    Your post indicates that you are in favor of healthcare reform.

    The only proposed healthcare reform I am aware of is the healthcare reform plan put forth by our current President, as outlined in HB 3200 and the companion Senate bill.

    I am in no way implying that you are in support of abortion.
    If my post gave you that impression, then I apologize.

    I simply pointed out that if the proposed legislation indeed becomes law, then there is a very good possibility that our tax dollars will be paying for abortions under the 'public plan'.

    Did you follow the links and read all the amendments that were either defeated or passed?

    I do not know how much of the actual HB 3200 you have read. There is much in the bill that concerns me greatly.

    Based upon your user-name, I assume you are a pastor.
    If that is true, and your church pays the staff's insurance premiums, it may be good for you to look at how the proposed legislation could affect that?
    In Christ,
    Ralph
     
  19. preachinjesus

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    Absolutely, I'm also for free healthcare for all people that is world class.

    Yeah I haven't taken a position on the bills. I guess I'll read 'em when Congress does...

    I do wish the media would start being open to the legions of Americans with legitimate questions. I know many people who have good questions and would like Congress to act like representatives and not dictators.

    No worries. I was trying to be conversational and not confrontational but my inflection didn't come through the keyboard. :)

    Well the public is already paying for abortions. I'm not fine with that.

    How my church handles or doesn't handle health care for me and my family probably won't be affected by anything Congress can do. There are limits to what the government can or cannot do. I know some will jump up and down saying that its going to happen. If the American public has shown anything over the past 100 years is it will go one way for awhile then back the other way.

    Not to get off topic but I had the opportunity to speak with Ambassador Max Kampelman not too long ago. He talked with me, and a couple of others that were with us, about the power of the ought. There are somethings that are so profoundly moral and right that they are to be "oughts." I believe there are several significant oughts in our country. Things that we can and should something about to make our lives, our country, our world better, safer, and (honestly) more Godly. Healthcare is one of those oughts.

    We have people around us suffering and dying because they don't have access to the systems of healthcare sitting across the street from them. Part of the basic oath of doctors is to give care without reservation for those in need. Right now, in America, we have the resources and ability to fix this. It is our obligation to humanity to provide these basic services to those among us who otherwise can't get them.

    We must throw down the ravages of unabashed greed and the lust for power and engage with our brothers and sisters who need us. We, unlike any other civilization can do something about this. We just lack the ought.

    Sorry, tangent. Just needed to say that. :type:
     
  20. rbell

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    Really? Don't be so sure about that.

    Really? They seem to ignore those limits more and more. Heck, they're taking over private companies and replacing the CEO's now...

    And if the American government has shown anything over the past 100 years, it is that it will start a program that will never die...only get bigger.
     

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