A Terrifying Prospect: The Loss of the U.S. Army in Iraq

So, you are contending that the U.S. won the war in Vietnam?

 

I think the correct statement was that we didn't lose the vietnam war.

 

I agree, we didn't win. That's called losing.

 

Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

When you leave the battlefield for the enemy to control and never return that's called losing.

 

We could have kicked North Vietnam's butt, but noo!! The baby killers need to come home. Let's not bomb the poor innocent north anymore. Let's not finish what we started. We didn't lose in Vietnam. We forfited to our country's eternal shame. Every time I have visited the Vietnam Memorial in D.C. I am appalled at the waste of so many lives. For what cause did they die? And, from the tone of some, you would think they were glad we lost and would be glad for it to happen to us again. To hear the left you would think they would be glad for us to lose in Iraq.

 

Ther are such things as truces and treaties. No win. No loss.

North Vietnam broke the treaty. We didn't respond.

That in no way indicates the U.S. militarily "lost" the war.

The South Vietnamese were defeated on the battlefield and actually did "lose" the war.

That is historical fact.

Your opinion doesn't matter.

 

Do you recall the Paris Peace Accords of 1973 whereby a treaty was signed between all parties involved? Do you remember that we abided by the terms of that treaty and completed the orderly withdrawal our military forces from Viet Nam and transfered full control to the RVN? Do you realize that we'd already started the process of "Vietnamization" in 1969 and had been steadily reducing our military forces in Viet Nam? Do you understand that the DRV and PRG did not abide by the treaty - they always were the bad guys - and continued to press their attack against the RVN? Do you understand that the RVN lost a desparate fight against the DRV two years after the treaty and long after we were gone from Viet Nam? Why then do you say we - the USA - lost the war when we did not?

 

I am not glad we lost the war in Vietnam, but we did. Just like Iraq, we never should have been involved.

 

You may not be "glad" but you don't hesitate to use that particular myth to suit your political purposes.

Your ignorance up to now could be excused. Now you can...

consider yourself reliably informed.

Henceforth when you repeat it, you will be just a common liar.

 

There are at least two posters on this thread who fought in Vietnam that I know of. Usually I see a difference of opinion as just that, a different perspective. But here, for those either criticizing our time in Vietnam or arguing we lost, do you realize how ridiculous it looks? You are debating two (at least) that were there, experienced the heat, fear, sadness, fatigue, and stress 24 hours a day. You don't have a clue, and could not even imagine it in your mind. Maybe it is your turn to serve your country.

 

If me telling the truth makes me a common liar, does that make you an extra ordinary liar for continuing to propose that we did not lose in Vietnam?

 

We did not lose the war in Viet Nam. We had very good reasons to be involved in the Viet Nam war and it was a very just cause. It's unfortunate some people back home did everything possible to discredit the cause, the methods, and those they fought and lead the fighting. It's very sad that some today actually believe we lost the war in Viet Nam and that it was an unjust and hopeless cause. It must be what they've seen on television, in the movies, or heard their favorite idols speak or maybe it's in the books they've read. It's almost predicable though how they'll line up on the issue. They ignore the hard cold facts of history and are fixated on a few selected images or events that define the whole war in their minds. They seem to seek out heroes among our enemies and villains among our own or our friends. They're convinced America is the problem around the world and, if only would just stay home, all the other powers of the world would behave peacefully and with the best intents towards us and others who seek the benefits of representative government.

 

If two men are fighting in the boxing ring, and one of them refuses to continue to fight by staying on his stool at the beginning of a round, the other boxer is declared the winner, and the one who refused to answer the bell is considered the loser. Just because the losing boxer was not knocked out doesn't mean he did not lose the fight.

In Vietnam the U.S. withdrew our forces from the field of battle. I know it bothers some here but that is called losing.

 

That has to be one of the most ignorant statements made on this board. With hindsight, even former Secretary of Defense, Robert McNamara, said it was something we should never have gotten involved in. There was no strategic American interest at stake. We just took over for the French, who got beaten down by that horrible war. I respect my countrymen who served, willingly or unwillingly. I also respect those with the fortitude and convictions to go to Canada to avoid being sent to a war that should not have been America's to begin with. And of course, it was never declared a war by Congress, but another "police action" by the executive branch.

 

All hail the international order or you are traitor and enemy of the state still huh Carpro? Don't you think it's about time you really supported the troops and demand they be used for our defense as intended instead of protecting and expanding some neoconistic empire our republic was never meant to be?

You wanted facts...there they are. Now let's hear you sing and dance your way around them once again.

 

So let me get this straight Dragoon...we we're helping France to defend it's empire in southeast asia? Our people died defending what our forefathers died defending us against? Now ain't that just a kick in the head.

 

You're wrong about our supporting France's colonial empire. We were on the side of establishing independence for Viet Nam through free national elections in due time and with due process. We didn't want Viet Nam to become a Communist state and didn't want it to remain a French colony either. Our broad interest where in the restoration of order in Southeast Asia following the chaos of World War II caused by Japan - they were the bad guys - and the prevention of the spread of Communism - they were some more bad guys - which we clearly and rightly saw as a direct and significant threat to our nation. Some of the steps we took along the way may not, in retrospect, have been the best possible but, of the choices available at the time, they were good and well-intentioned decisions. Critics wish to paint a picture of an evil America out to subdue the world but that's just not the truth. That's the "kick in the head"!

 

I have no use for anyone who ran away to Canada to avoid service to our country. I have little use for those who support them.

To suggest that Congress did not "declare" war in the case of the Viet Nam war is as crazy as saying the same now about the Iraq war. The term "declare" may not appear in the resolutions but, without doubt, the Congress supported the decisions with resolution after resolution and funding on top of funding. Some details were clarified with the subsequent War Powers Act but the fundamental Constitutional process was followed. Claiming otherwise makes it seem like it's all because of the decisions of one person and all without justification.

I agree that there are many ignorant statements made on this board.

 

Okay, let me play along with this silly example for moment: If the two men get together mid way through a fight and sign an agreement to stop fighting then the fight is over without a winner or loser. If one of them comes back later - in complete violation of the terms of their agreement - and beats up on the other's little friend, then he may win that fight but he sure didn't beat the other man and sure did prove that he can't be trusted to abide by any agreement. If the other man doesn't come back into the fight - for whatever reason - he still doesn't lose the fight.

We did not lose the war in Viet Nam. Yes, I have a problem with the popular story to the contrary that's been repeated so many times it's believed to the truth.