A test for intellectuals

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by stilllearning, Sep 4, 2010.

  1. stilllearning

    stilllearning
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    Recent threads have reminded me, of just how many people here, have a “love of wisdom”:
    Now before you jump in telling me how truly good this is, lets see what God has to say about it.........
    Colossians 2:8
    “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”


    This word “philosophy” laterally means, a “love of wisdom”, and this isn’t necessarily a good thing.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Just a reminder of something I have said here many times before: “Wisdom is a good thing”........
    Proverbs 1:7
    “The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of knowledge: [but] fools despise wisdom and instruction.”


    But when we lift it above God’s Word, it becomes a trap.
    --------------------------------------------------
    I have said all of this, because there is a simple test, to determine if any of us are getting “too smart”, for our own Good.

    The test involves God’s Word.......and what we think about it.
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    (1) Do you believe the human race started off with two real people named Adam & Eve?

    (2) Do you believe that God brought a world wide flood, killing everything that breathed air, that wasn’t in the ark?

    (3) Do you believe that the ark actually housed an example of every animal of Noah’s time?

    (4) Do you believe Job was a real person, that God actually tested?

    (5) Do you believe that God parted the Red Sea, and that God’s people crossed on dry ground?

    (6) Do you believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a big fish and lived 72 hours in the fish’s belly?

    (7) Do you believe Jesus was actually born of a virgin?
    --------------------------------------------------
    If you answer “No”, to any of these questions(except for maybe #3), you have become “too smart”.
     
  2. quantumfaith

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    What is the stipulation to #3?
     
  3. quantumfaith

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    phi·los·o·phy (f-ls-f)
    n. pl. phi·los·o·phies
    1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
    2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
    3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
    4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
    5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
    6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
    7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
    8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.
     
  4. lastday

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    Lastday

    stilllearning:

    The "wisdom" of men has actually affected the truth of Scripture!
    You quote Col.2:8 and in Col.3:8 we see a glaring case in point!!
    Plato's Philosophy continues this day to blur the truth of God!!!

    The truth in question is whether anger and wrath are conflicting emotions!
    The early Church Fathers said they were totally opposite emotions!!
    Present-day scholars teach that they are interchangeable!!!

    When we get to God's wrath, do the Plagues "complete His wrath"?
    Or do they exhaust His patience knowing it is a part of "long-anger"?
    Doesn't the first sentence deny the singularity of God's "Day of Wrath"?

    The Greek text states: "Put away orgay (wrath) and thumos (anger)"!
    Bibles consistently switch the words: "Put away anger and wrath"!!
    The KJV translators never once translated thumos as "anger"!!!

    In Rev.14:10,19; Rev.15:1,7; Rev.16:1, we get the wrong meaning!
    God's makro-thumos no longer represents His patience or His anger!!
    God's wrath is applied to "great tribulation" rather than a single day!!!

    The correct time for the Rapture rests on the truth of God's patience!
    God's patience continues to the last day when God's wrath will occur!!
    "His patience leads men to repentance; His wrath brings destruction"!!!
    Mel Miller
     
  5. SolaSaint

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    I thought that #6 might be the exception. Did Jonah need to be in the fishes belly for 72 hours?
     
  6. stilllearning

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    Thanks quantumfaith & lastday, for your informative responses.

    As for my statement about #3........
    “Do you believe that the ark actually housed an example of every animal of Noah’s time?”

    There are some who believe, that the dinosaurs(Job 40:15-ff), died in the flood and I am not ready to argue with them about that.
     
  7. stilllearning

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    Hello SolaSaint

    You said.......
    Yes, according to........
    Matthew 12:40
    “For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.”
     
  8. annsni

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    Three days and three nights HAS to equal 72 hours?
     
  9. quantumfaith

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    OK, dern, then I wont go there.

    BTW, IMHO, there are numerous Christian philosophers/apologists who have contributed greatly and continue to do so, to the cause of Christendom.
    (William Lane Craig, Norm Giesler etc.)
     
  10. Dr. Bob

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    (1) Do you believe the human race started off with two real people named Adam & Eve?

    (2) Do you believe that God brought a world wide flood, killing everything that breathed air, that wasn’t in the ark?

    (3) Do you believe that the ark actually housed an example of every animal of Noah’s time?

    (4) Do you believe Job was a real person, that God actually tested?

    (5) Do you believe that God parted the Red Sea, and that God’s people crossed on dry ground?

    (6) Do you believe that Jonah was actually swallowed by a big fish and lived 72 hours in the fish’s belly?

    (7) Do you believe Jesus was actually born of a virgin?

    1,2,3,5,7 YES unequivocably

    4 God gave SATAN the power to test Job The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in YOUR hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."

    6 maybe. 3 days and 3 nights is an idiom used in Hebrew just like when we say "a couple of days". Is a couple of days 2 days? 48 hours (not 48 hours and 1 minute)?

    Was Jesus exactly 72 hours in the grave?? Of course not. It is a figure of speech to show He was truly dead. Jesus was buried between 5-6 pm on Wednesday or Thursday or Friday (lots of view on the BB) and do an EXACT 72 hours would have Him resurrected Saturday afternoon or Sunday afternoon or Monday afternoon. Absurd.

    But hey, I'm a historic fundamentalist The literal historical grammatical method of hermeneutice is my bottom line.
     
  11. J.D.

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    I refuse to take this "test for intellectuals" lest I be accused of being one. But most of the Christian intellectuals I know of believe in the literal truth of the Bible.
     
  12. John of Japan

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    No, the word "philosophy" means literally that: philosophy. It is a linguistic fallacy to assume that the origin of a word dictates its meaning ever after. So it is completely wrong to think the NT Greek word means "love of wosdom."

    Paul wasn't opposing a "love of wisdom," which is actually something enjoined often in the Bible, but Greek philosophy, ways of thinking and acting invented by men: Stoicism, Epicurianism, Plato, Socrates, etc. To forbid a "love of wisdom" would be to fly in the face of the whole book of Proverbs, where wisdom (in a good way) occurs in 116 different verses out of only 915 in the book!

    Pr 4:5 Get wisdom, get understanding: forget it not; neither decline from the words of my mouth.
    Pr 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
    Pr 16:16 How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!
     
    #12 John of Japan, Sep 5, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2010
  13. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Thanks John! I was wrapping up some things for this morning and was coming back to post those passages! You saved me a few minutes.
     
  14. John of Japan

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    Great minds think alike! :thumbs:
     
  15. John of Japan

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    I see a trilogy in the Bible of wisdom (the highest), understanding and knowledge. These three or some combination of them occur over and over in the Bible.

    Knowledge is the lowest, and is simply possessing facts. Knowledge can puff a person up with pride (1 Cor. 8:1), and therefore must be tempered with love. However, it is useful and powerful.

    Understanding speaks of comprehension of a situation or a problem, being able to grasp the ins and outs, the possibilities and probabilities of a situation. It is vital for the Christian to understand the Bible and God's ways.

    Wisdom is the God-given (James 1:5) ability to make the right decisions. It comes from walking with God, knowing His Word and praying to Him for wisdom. If it were bad to love wisdom, God would certaintly not tell us to pray for it and seek it and love it!

    On the other hand, the verse in the OP is speaking of the dangers of human philosophy. One example of this is the new book coming out this week by Stephen Hawkings, the brilliant yet very foolish physicist. In his book he says that God is not needed as a Creator of the universe. The title? The Grand Design. As if a design did not have to have a Designer! Hawkings has much knowledge, but little understanding and no wisdom.
     
  16. quantumfaith

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    :thumbs::thumbs:
     
  17. mcdirector

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    I don't understand these conversations on Christians and intellectualism and the harm that intellectualism supposedly does. The Bible is full of examples of teaching and learning. God designed our brains to not only learn things from route, but to make connections, to develop and expand ideas. Using the brain to the point of (or past) intellectualism is only harmful when biblical truths and godly teaching are in the end discarded. (I'm thinking along the lines of those like Philip Pullium here). In studying the Bible, it seems to me, that in order to gain deeper understanding, we must question the wording, the phrasing, the intent, the circumstances, the people involved. These actions should lead us to a more profound desire for God - not away from Him. It is not the intellectualism that God gave us that is the problem but the lack of faith.
     
  18. quantumfaith

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    Excellent commentary and insight. :thumbs:
     
  19. psalms109:31

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    Meaningless

    If we have all the wisdom of the world and all the intelligent that it can bring and not willing to give it up for Christ and learn from Him, then it is all meaningless. What good is wisdom and intelligent if we don't trust in Christ and believe in Him for life?
     
  20. asterisktom

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    You are setting up a false dilemma, as if intelligence and wisdom is opposed to Christ. We don't give intelligence up any more than we give up our own blood even though we are bought by His. Neither do we stop using words even though we have come to believe in the Word.

    Paul in his missionary endeavours and in his writings - inspired writings - used uninspired knowledge in his dealing with the lost. When we love God we are commanded to do so with all of our heart, mind, soul, and strength.
     

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