A True Pastor

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by SaggyWoman, Apr 9, 2010.

  1. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    I just had a visit from a local church member at a community church near I work. She was having a conversation with someone else and she made a statement that her son in law was getting ordained so that he could become a "true" pastor.

    He is currently serving as a youth pastor and will continue serving as youth pastor until whenever.

    A true pastor. Really? I am struggling with this concept.
     
  2. StefanM

    StefanM
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    6,423
    Likes Received:
    72
    For better or worse, youth pastors/ministers/directors are generally seen as being on a lower level than the senior pastor. Some of this is justified, as the senior pastor is typically the "first" among the pastoral staff, and is often the supervisor of the youth minister.

    In many churches, the youth position is not an ordained staff position. It is often styled "director." This is very common in other denominations, like the UMC. In the UMC, the pastors itinerate, but the directors do not.
     
  3. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2000
    Messages:
    17,933
    Likes Received:
    8
    I guess my heartbreak comes in that one has to be ordained to be true.
     
  4. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't think Spurgeon was ever ordained, was he? So is he false or untrue? :tongue3:
     
  5. John Toppass

    John Toppass
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Messages:
    1,059
    Likes Received:
    7
    When referring to the term ordained, I think of the many servants in the church who do not let ordination stand in their way, some do not qualify for the office of deacon, elder or pastor but they do not let that interfere in the way of their service.
    Then there are those ordained deacons and pastors that I have met that do not have the mind of a servant but rather the mind of a superior. (I think scripture defines them as fools) To bad for them, I do not think they know what they are missing.

    Be proud for his ordination, it is a step forward in his calling. Pray for him as you would other servants of the church for Satan will go extra lengths to cause turmoil and doubt in his life. After all, Satan does not attack those who are not attacking him.

    (Added by edit)
    Then there are the many who are ordained who serve to the best of their calling no matter the difficulty.
     
    #5 John Toppass, Apr 9, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 9, 2010
  6. Major B

    Major B
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Harry Ironside was never ordained--not sure about Spurgeon--remember, the New Park Street Chapel was his second pastorate. He served for a couple of years as the pastor of Waterbeach Chapel in Cambridgeshire.
     
  7. sag38

    sag38
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,394
    Likes Received:
    1
    Pastor, often times, is a product of one's own opinion and experience rather than what might be found in God's word.
     
  8. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have served as a pastor for 5 and a half years. i am not ordained and another pastor claims i am not a real pastor for this reason. i suggested that our congregation convene an ordination council to rectify this objection. after prayerful consideratuon and consultation with other ministers, they determined that this was not biblically nessescary for the ministry of our church. i had considered ordination as man made qualification rather than a biblical mandate. perhaps in the future i will reconsider this position, but for now, iwill concentrate on serving God as He has called me to do. if and when God convicts me to pursue ordination i will do so.
     
    #8 j_barner2000, Apr 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2010
  9. Cutter

    Cutter
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    I look at ordination by your church and your specific faith as a commissioning for you to be able to fulfill the whole duties of a Pastor. Like many have said, what God views as being necessary and what man's views are are totally different at times, although I do believe that a Pastor should desire and seek to be ordained by his home church.
     
  10. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    Using terms like true or false may not be the best way to characterize men who have not been ordained. But men who are called of God are clearly commanded in scripture to be ordained by the church. There may be men called of God that have not been ordained. They are not false, they have just gotten ahead of God. This is not the same as a man made education standard which requires a specific level of education. Scripture gives a clear mandate and the authority to the church.
     
  11. THEOLDMAN

    THEOLDMAN
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2008
    Messages:
    203
    Likes Received:
    0
    If God called you...and you answered the call.....you my friend, are a "true pastor". God bless you and your ministry !
     
  12. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where do you see the Scriptural mandate? I see a Scriptural precedent and allusion to it, but the mandate escapes me right now. (...and did Spurgeon get ahead of God?) :tongue3:

    Having said that, Jbarner, we should remember that ordination, while no means a guarantor of a call or the bene esse of ministry validation, is an external appropriation by the church of the inward call. IOW, if others can't see it in you, is it in you?
     
  13. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2003
    Messages:
    888
    Likes Received:
    0
    The church i served previously and my current church agree that i am called by God as a pastor. the community accepts me as a pastor and i know i am called by God to be a pastor. the man who questions my call also accuses me of heresy because i preach using the nasb. he believes that a real pastor would reject "any modern perversion of the Bible. real men of God only use the true Bible which is the authorized king james translation." these are his words spoken directly to me when i asked him if he made the comment about my lack of ordination.
     
  14. jaigner

    jaigner
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2009
    Messages:
    2,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ordination is an extra-biblical construct that I feel one is free to receive if the situation presents itself. I don't think it makes much difference, in the grand scheme of things. Many people have strong feelings about it, though, and use strange terms like "true" to describe ordained clergy.

    It does help with your taxes, though.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784


    Tit 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:

    1Co 7:17 But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.


    There is no precedent or allusion to Pastors who have not been ordained in scripture. A lot of effort was placed on ordaining.
     
  16. PastorGreg

    PastorGreg
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2000
    Messages:
    794
    Likes Received:
    0
    Understand your concerns, Saggy. It does seem Biblically prudent, though, for some formal recognition by the church of the gifting by God of this person for ministry. Thus the requirements of I Tim. 3 and Titus 1.
     
  17. rbell

    rbell
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Formal recognition is quite understandable, and IMO biblical.

    But many churches have made ordination the "third ordinance" of the church, IMO.
     
  18. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,303
    Likes Received:
    784
    If the church is willing to call a pastor why would they not want to formally ordain him? It is like the formal declaration membership, there is no reason not to. Quite silly
     
  19. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have a response to this, but I'm late in heading out of town. Get back to you in a couple of days. Thanks for the post.

    Edited...okay...brief thoughts and I'll elaborate when I'm back.

    Titus 1:5 - ordain in KJV is actually "appoint" and not to the physical act of ordination. Maybe there was a service, but this is not a direct command to ordain all elders, though by example we could extrapolate (with a leap or two) the admonition to do so.

    1 Co 7:17 - this is not talking about ordaining ministers. Paul is ordaining (means giving a rule) for the churches. Not germane

    More to come......
     
    #19 TomVols, Apr 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2010
  20. TomVols

    TomVols
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2000
    Messages:
    11,170
    Likes Received:
    0
    This I'm in total agreement with. More to come....
     

Share This Page

Loading...