a void place? 2 Chron. 18:9

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Logos1560, May 27, 2009.

  1. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    Is there a difference in meaning in the renderings of the early English Bibles and the KJV at 2 Chronicles 18:9?

    2 Chron. 18:9
    cornfloor (1395 Wycliffe's Bible)
    place (1535 Coverdale's Bible)
    threshing floor (1537 Matthew's, 1540 Great, 1560 Geneva, 1568 Bishops')
    void place (1611 KJV)

    "they sat in a void place at the entering in of the gate of Samaria"

    What would you consider the meaning of "a void place" to be?
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon
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    I was a bit surprised to see the word wasn't related to the Hebrew word 'bohu' in Genesis 1:2.

    Hebrew gōren

    And the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah sat each on his throne, having put on their robes, in a void place in the entrance of the gate of Samaria; and all the prophets prophesied before them.
    Heb. floor. Judg. 6. 37. Ruth 3. 2 (Heb.).
    1 Kings 22:10 AV 1873


    And when they came to Nachon’s threshingfloor, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it; for the oxen shook it.
    2 Samuel 6:6 AV 1873

    Rob
     
  3. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    I had checked and found that the KJV translators had translated this Hebrew word goren as "threshing floor" 17 times and "floor" 10 times.

    The KJV translators seem to have taken their rendering "void place" at 1 Kings 22:10 from that same rendering in the 1560 Geneva Bible and 1568 Bishops' Bible at that verse, and then they also put it at 2 Chronicles 18:9 where the Geneva and Bishops' have "threshing floor."
     
  4. Tater77

    Tater77
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    And the old English causes confusion once again.................................
     
  5. franklinmonroe

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    When the Hebrew word goren (Strong's #1637) is found in relation with city gates (as here 2 Chronicles 18:9 & 1 Kings 22:10) it seems to indicate an unobstructed level area (see Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon to the Old Testamament Scriptures by Wilhelm Gesenius) obviously neccessary for smooth operation of swinging gates. Perhaps this also best explains the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament inclusion of "void place" as a legitimate definition (source: blueletterbible). Elsewhere, the word seems to mean a smooth level surface, especially a threshing 'floor' when in association with an agricultural context.

    It is my understanding that traditionally threshingfloors were located on hilltops where the breeze would best assist the winnowing of the grain. Unless there is obscure evidence to show that threshing activity frequently took place very near the city entrance, I am inclined to think that something like "void place" (a 'clear' space before swinging gates) is a good representation of the word's function in this context.
     
    #5 franklinmonroe, May 29, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: May 29, 2009
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    The city Samaria was built on a hill so that the gates of Samaria could have been on the hill.

    1 Kings 16:24 And he bought the hill Samaria of Shemer for two talents of silver, and built on the hill, and called the name of the city which he built, after the name of Shemer, owner of the hill, Samaria.
     
  7. AntennaFarmer

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    I agree. It makes sense that an open area would be associated with the entrance of a walled city. If the void space were located directly at the gate there would be practical limitations on using it as an actual "threshing floor" as foot traffic crossing the space would tend to scatter the grain and straw.

    A.F.
     
  8. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
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    Could it possibly be the place was void of the Spirit no matter how much threshing took place here?

    I know God is everywhere but not in all things, but God also placed the name "Ichabod" on some places meaning he was forever departed from them. May be of relevence here too. maybe it signifies his departure due to the incorrect way of things being done here such as when an unqualified person touched the ark to steady it and God killed him dead right there/ DRT. or DiRT.
     
  9. robycop3

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    In the old days, "void" was often used for "empty, containing nothing", as a threshing floor would be mosta the time.
     
  10. Harold Garvey

    Harold Garvey
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    Yep, a place void of the Spirit is empty no matter how much other junk is in there. Just as a threshingfloor is void when the blessings of God are not upon it, it is to no avail when all it sustains the flesh.
     

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