Abbreviated Word Study G5087, tithemi

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Van, Aug 21, 2014.

  1. Van

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    “Tithemi” has three basic meanings, to set something somewhere; (2)to change the status of someone for a purpose; and (3) to present or set forth an idea or account, such as set forth the gospel.

    The first basic meaning is to put, place, set, or lay something somewhere. This meaning is by far the most common meaning found in scripture.

    The second basic meaning, to change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfil the requirements of the office.

    The third basic meaning is to present or set forth something, such as to set forth the gospel.

    The second and third basic meaning can be translated into English using designate, establish, and set forth.

    Lets look at the verses where the second or third basic meaning appears to be the intended meaning:

    Matthew 24:51, and will cut him in pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    I think designate is a little better than assign because it can be viewed as dismissal or at least to be set apart. In baseball, players cut from the team are designated for assignment.

    Luke 12:46, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

    Designate again implies putting a person away from oneself, i.e. set apart.

    John 15:16, You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you.

    Here, I think “established” better presents the intended message. In order to bear fruit, we must abide in Christ and Christ in us; therefore we are a new creation. We have been established, converted in Christ.

    Acts 1:7, He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

    Designated conveys the message more concordantly.

    Acts 5:4, While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.”

    Here I think set forth captures the idea better, the evil plan was not just conceived, it was developed, arranged and set forth in his heart as a plan of action.

    Acts 13:47, For so the Lord has commanded us, ‘I HAVE PLACED YOU AS A LIGHT FOR THE GENTILES, THAT YOU MAY BRING SALVATION TO THE END OF THE EARTH.’

    Here, I think, “established” you as a light better reflects the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 20:28, Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which He purchased with His own blood.

    Here, “established” you as overseers provides the implication of a changed (converted) status, i.e. gifted in administration.

    Acts 27:12, Because the harbor was not suitable for wintering, the majority reached a decision to put out to sea from there, if somehow they could reach Phoenix, a harbor of Crete, facing southwest and northwest, and spend the winter there.

    The majority set forth the decision to put out to sea. Again, the idea is not just a conceived idea, but a developed plan, involving not only to leave, but where to go and why.

    Romans 4:17, (as it is written, “A FATHER OF MANY NATIONS HAVE I MADE YOU”) in the presence of Him whom he believed, even God, who gives life to the dead and calls into being that which does not exist.

    Here, if we stick with a literal translation of “tithemi” we would go with “established.” However, that would obscure the linkage to Genesis 17:5 where we find “made.” While the Hebrew word in Genesis also means to put or set, it is translated as “made” over 100 times. So I think a footnote is required, i.e. “made or established”

    1 Corinthians 9:18, “What then is my reward? That, when I preach the gospel, I may offer the gospel without charge, so as not to make full use of my right in the gospel.

    Here, set forth the gospel points to a full presentation, and not an abbreviated feel good alteration.

    1 Corinthians 12:18 But now God has placed the members, each one of them, in the body, just as He desired.

    Established points to the act of the Holy Spirit gifting members to build up the body.

    1 Corinthians 12:28, And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.

    For the same reason, “established” is better here, pointing to the gifting of the Holy Spirit rather than putting someone not specially equipped in a position.

    2 Corinthians 5:19, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

    Set forth better captures the idea of reconciliation being provided through the whole gospel.

    1 Thessalonians 5:9, For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    Designated works best here, i.e. God has set us apart for salvation.

    1 Timothy 2:7, For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying) as a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.

    “Established as” seems better, conveying the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit.

    2 Timothy 1:11, for which I was appointed a preacher and an apostle and a teacher.

    Again, “established as” seems a better choice.

    Hebrews 1:2, in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

    “Established as” seems better, because of Christ’s authenticating miracles.

    1 Peter 2:8, and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.

    Again, they were designated because of their stumbling over salvation through faith and not works.

    2 Peter 2:6, and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

    Here, I think, “set them forth as” is better than “made” because the purpose was to provide an illustration.

    In summary, G5087, tithemi, is used about 19 times where the meaning is designate (5 times), establish (9 times), and set forth (5 times.)

    One of the key insights arising from this word study is that God did not just assign a person to an office or task, many times He equipped the person,i.e. gifts of the Holy Spirit, so as to establish the person for that task or office.
     
  2. Van

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    Tithemi is one of the words that means "appoint unilaterally" and thus can be translated as designate. This avoids overlap with another Greek word that is translated "appointed" and refers to an appointment made by mutual consent.
     
  3. Rippon

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    Van, you've bitten off more than you can chew in your OP. You need to study brevity.
     
  4. Rippon

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    Since you've bitten off more than you can chew, as I said in my previous entry --I will go in bite-size portions for the convenience of readers.

    Van, when you try to reinvent the wheel --it is a vain pursuit. You think you have arrived at the point where you are wiser than your teachers. Translators are regularly besmirched at your hands. You think nothing of their efforts --you know better. Do you know that smells of arrogance?

    You are certainly allowed to have a difference of opinion, but to constantly castigate their work is not fitting for someone who names the Name of Christ.
     
  5. Rippon

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    Batter Up!

    Matthew 24:51
    Assign is better than designate. Your baseball example struck out.

    All of these versions have assign : NIV, NLT, NASB, HCSB and NET.

    Luke 12:46
    You prefer designate again. But the word assign is quite ideal. After cutting up the wicked servant and assigning him a place with the unbelievers leaves us in no doubt about his destination --Hell.
    The NIV, NASB, HCSB and NET all render it with assign.

    John 15:16
    All of the following versions go with appointed: NIV, HCSB, NASB, ESV, NLT, Weymouth, WEB and NIrV.

    "You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you..."

    No Van, I'm sorry, but established does not make the cut.

    Acts 1:7
    Set : NIV, NLT, HCSB, WEB, NET and NIrV. The ESV and NASB have fixed.

    Have you heard of keeping it simple? The word set is easily understood and does rather nicely here. Don't muddle things wth designated.

    Acts 5:4
    There is no uniformity among the various translations. The choices range from "conceived","planned" "thought up" and "purposed."

    But your particular preference for set forth is an odd selection. The text is speaking of what was being conceived in the heart of Ananias. One doesn't "set forth" something in the heart. Setting forth is normally used in the context of what someone declares, such as a reasoned argument. It involves speech --not what someone is thinking in their heart.

    So sorry, but your choice does not cut the proverbial mustard.

    Acts 13:47
    The renderings vary. The NASB and Weymouth have placed. Darby has set. NET has appointed. But the NIV, NLT, HCSB and NIrV all have made. That's a better option than your established.

    Thank about it Van. The verse harkens back to Isaiah 49:6 :"...I will make you a light for the Gentiles..."

    Yes indeed, the word made is better suited in Acts 13:47.
     
  6. Van

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    LOL, yet more posts where Rippon simply bolsters my view that translations translate the very same word meaning in a myriad of ways.

    Note that in John 15:16 the idea of equipping for service, i.e. being established for a purpose, is left out of some translations.

    And again keeping it simple, using the same word or phrase for each word meaning to reach the goals of transparency and concordance, is said not to make the cut.
     
  7. Rippon

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    Acts 20:28
    Here Van wants the word established when made does very nicely, thank you very much. After all, the text states that :"the holy Spirit has made you overseers. It can't be plainer than that.

    The NLT and HCSB opted for appointed. The NIV, ESV, NASB, NET, WEB and NIrV went with made. And that suits me fine.

    Acts 27:12
    Van prefers set forth. It strikes his fancy somehow. It's a rather straightforward thing here. This is the NIV rendering :"Since the harbour was unsuitable to winter in, the majority decided that we should sail on..."

    The word decided was used in the ESV, HCSB, NET and NIrV in addition to the NIV. "The majority set forth..."? Naw, that's too clumsy.

    1 Cor. 9:18
    Van wants set forth yet again. Van thinks that the word "offer" is inadequate and calls it the "feel good" approach. That demeaning remark has become his trademark.

    The ESV has present. The NIV, NASB, HCSB, and NET all have offer. I don't see any problem with it. Here's asnip from the NIV:"...that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge..."

    That's quite clear to me. Does anyone else aside from Van have any difficulty with it?

    1 Cor. 12:18
    He wants the word established for reasons that are less than satisfactory.

    The ESV and Weymouth have arranged. Darby and WEB have set.

    However, the majority of modern translations have placed : the NASB, NIV, HCSB, NET and NIrV.

    Here is the NIV reading :"But in fact God has placed the parts of the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be."

    I don't know how much clearer it has to be than :"God has placed."

    1 Cor. 12:28
    Van vouches for established once more. He can't seem to let well enough alone. No other version has that phrase here. But then again, Van's choices mostly are in the distinct minority or not at all.

    The NIV, HCSB and NET have placed. The NASB, NLT, ESV and NIrV all have appointed as the reading. I think we'll stick with either placed or appointed.

    2 Cor. 5:19
    Van demands set forth here. A majority of translations have committed in this verse: the NIV, NASB, HCSB and WEB. The ESV and Weymouth have entrusted. Although the NET translation has given in the text, its note says :Or :"he has entrusted to us." The NIV renders it :"And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation."
     
  8. Van

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    LOL, here we have the "anything" but whatever Van chose post repeated. Still no reasoning, other than clinging to whatever differs is offered.

    Is established the very best way to capture the idea of being both equipped or empowered or gifted and positioned or placed for a purpose?

    One person has said "made" is better, but that leaves our the meaning of being placed.
     
    #8 Van, Aug 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2014
  9. Rippon

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    You sure do a lot of laughing. I'm glad you're enjoying yourself.
    Do yourself a favor --reread my two posts in this thread where I deal with the verses you want to render in your unique manner.


    I don't have the time now to look at all those references. But I did look at several. My NIV does not have "arranged" in the few verses I looked up.
     
  10. Van

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    Another rendering is "arranged" and thus both actions can be "read into" the word. But with "established" the meaning also seems to need to be "read in."

    However, if we consider all the usages (John 15:16; Acts 13:47, 20:28; Romans 4:17; 1 Corinthians 12:18, 28; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11, and Hebrews 1:2) I still think established is superior to "arranged."

    Another possibility would be to us an alliterative "provisioned and placed" phrase. Or we could simply go with the meaning equipped and placed.

    In John 15:16 "established" works better than "equipped and placed.

    In Acts 13:47, equipped and placed works better than established.

    In Acts 20:28, established or equipped and placed both work equally well. But concordance is better served if we use equipped and placed.

    In Romans 4:17 I think the footnote "made or established" works best.

    In 1 Corinthians 12:18, I think equipped and placed works best.

    In 1 Corinthians 12:28 I think equipped and placed works best.

    In 1 Timothy 2:7, established works best.

    In 2 Timothy 1:11, established works best.

    In Hebrews 1:2, established works best.
     
  11. Rippon

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    1 Thess. 5:9
    Van opts for designated. No other translation has that rendering. But Van wants get get away from decree language. The NIV reads: For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ."

    Van doesn't appreciate the biblical doctrine that the elect are destined or appointed to receive salvation and that the reprobate are appointed to suffer wrath.

    How do the translations stack up? Well, the ESV and NASB have destined. The NET is close with destine. Aside from the NIV, the HCSB, WEB and YLT all have appoint.

    I think that some form of "destine" or "appoint" do nicely to convey the biblical message.

    1 Tim. 2:7
    This is a verse that deals with a decree of God which originated from before the foundation of the world. Here is how the NIV puts it:"And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and as an apostle." I prefer the decree language of appointed which is much stronger and more suggestive of the Lord planning it before the world began.

    Van avers that established is better because it conveys "the gifting of Paul by the Holy Spirit." I differ with his point of view, as do all of the following translations aside from the NIV : ESV, NASB, HCSB, NET, Darby, Weymouth, WEB and NIrV.

    2 Tim. 1:11
    Guess what? Van sticks with established. Are you surprised? Here is how the NIV has it:"And of this gospel I was appointed a herald and an apostle and a teacher." It sounds very much like 1 Tim. 2:7, doesn't it? Aside from the NIV all of these translations render it as appointed : ESV, NASB, HCSB, NET, Darby, Weymouth, WEB and NIrV.

    Tell you what... I think we'll just stick with those faithful translations in their usage here. That is, unless Van can "establish" a rationale not to. ;-)

    Heb. 1:2
    We're back to the decree thing. The Father, before the foundation of the world, appointed his Son as the heir of all things. Van's insistence on using established has not been established.

    Versions that have appointed : NIV, ESV, NASB, HCSB, NET, Darby, Weymouth, WEB and NIrV.

    1 Pe. 2:8
    Van designates designate here. . But he's going against the context. Here is the part of the verse as rendered by the NIV :"They stumble because they disobey the message --which is also what they were destined for." This passage has nothing to do with the issue of faith vs. works. One has to go with decree language --designate doesn't qualify.

    destined : ESV, NIV, HCSB, NET --the modern versions. By the way, the NET note has Grk:"to which they were destined"

    appointed : NASB, Darby, Weymouth and WEB.

    2 Pe. 2:6
    Now Van wants set them forth as. Here is how the NIV renders the last part of the verse :"and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly."

    All of the versions I cite use some form of the word make aside from the NIV :NASB, NLT, NIrV, WEB, ESV, HCSB, Weymouth.

    The NET note has :"because he had already appointed them to serve as an example."
     
  12. Van

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    More mind reading I see. Rippon says Van wants to... and then makes up a nefarious motive. Never mind I have posted why I chose "designated."

    Then Rippon continues to fabricate my views on a variety of Biblical Doctrines.

    And finally we get the news the translation choice I made, i.e. designate" is not as good as other choices.

    Rippon seems not to be able to actually do word studies, but given a verse, he can look up how other translation choices were made, and then proclaim the best one based on majority rule. You have got to love them folks.
     
    #12 Van, Aug 26, 2014
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  13. Van

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    The second basic meaning of Tithemi is to change the status of someone for a purpose, either by designating a person for a task or office, or by establishing needed characteristics of a person such that they can complete a task or fulfill the requirements of the office.

    So in the case of designating someone for an office, task or position, I think designate is better than assign or appoint, because it means to "set apart" and when used in a negative context, implies putting the person away from the one designating.

    So in 1 Peter 2:8 those that stumbled over salvation by faith rather than salvation by works were designated or set apart and put away from salvation in Christ.
     
  14. Rippon

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    All Scripture Citations Are From The NIV

    Van continues to misunderstand context. The context of 1 Peter 2:8 has nothing to do with what he contends. For his benefit I will demonstrate this by showing him how this verse is framed along with the surrounding passages.

    1 Peter 2:4-10 :

    As you come to him, the living Stone --rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him -- you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. For in Scripture it says :

    'See, I lay a stone in Zion,
    a chosen and precious cornerstone,
    and the one who trusts in him
    will never be put to shame.'

    Now to you who believe, this stone is precious.
    But to those who do not believe,

    'The stone the builders rejected
    has become the cornerstone,

    and,

    'A stone that causes people to stumble
    and a rock that makes them fall.'

    They stumble because they disobey the message --
    which is also what they were destined for.
    But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood,
    a holy nation, God's special possession,
    that you may declare the praises of him
    who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light.
    Once you were not a people, but now
    you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy,
    but now you have received mercy.
    ___________________________________________________

    Van, this whole section is about election. First, Christ is seen as the Grand Exemplar of being chosen by His Father. Then, we, His children --God's chosen people --God's special possession have been called out of darkness into His wonderful, marvellous light. And as a sister passage has it, He "has qualified us to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves. In whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins." (Col. 1:12b-14)

    A Praise God is in order here!
     
  15. Van

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    First we have usual ad homenim, i.e. Van does not understand the context.
    These logical fallacies are worthless and reflect the sheer mindlessness of Rippon's arguments.

    Does tithemi mean destined? Nope, it means to designate or set apart and put away those that rejected salvation by faith.

    Word studies bring to light cases where translations hit the mark and where they miss the mark.
     
  16. Van

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    Matthew 24:51, and will cut him in pieces and designate him a place with the hypocrites; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

    Luke 12:46, the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and designate him a place with the unbelievers.

    Acts 1:7, He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has designated by His own authority;

    1 Thessalonians 5:9, For God has not designated us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

    1 Peter 2:8, and, “A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE”; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also designated.

    The above have tithemi translated as designated, and reflect a transparent and concordant translation choice consistent with the context.

    Would assigned be better? I could not say assigned would not be equally as good.
     
    #16 Van, Aug 26, 2014
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  17. Rippon

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    You are a riot. For me to tell you that you continue "to misunderstand context" does not qualify as an ad hominem.

    Well, this sentence of yours certainly qualifies as irony. Your thin skin was agitated when I said it's your tendency to misunderstand context. I supplied the setting of the passage by giving the four preceding verses and the following two. That showed the context. But that got under your thin skin. So you proceed to demonstrate hypocrisy by telling me that my reasoning is "sheer mindlessness" and "worthless." You take the cake Bud.

    And you still insist that 1 Peter 2:8 has to do with faith and works which illustrates that you are a master of eisegesis.
    The translators of every English Bible translation got it wrong in your not-so-humble estimation. But you, with all your attainments, have arrived on the scene to correct the situation.
    No, Van thinks he knows better than the experts. He misses repeatedly,with the all the powers of his pretended authority.
     
    #17 Rippon, Aug 26, 2014
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  18. Rippon

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    Just three short posts before you said :"I think designate is better than assign."

    Which Van has the final authority --Van #13 or Van #16?
     
  19. Van

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    I am still trying to figure out why you post, Rippon.

    I gave my reasoning for saying designate was better than assign, but did you address that? Nope.

    Now you attack adjusting views in light of information gained. Working theories get tweaked along the way.

    Designated and assigned are pretty close in meaning and was simply acknowledging that fact. :)
     
  20. Rippon

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    Silly boy. Try rereading posts 11,14 and 17.

    I would still like you to try and explain why you think 1 Peter 2:8 deals with works vs. faith when the whole context of 2:4-10 has absolutely nothing to do with that subject. And yet you teach S.S?
     

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