Abortion

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Mark-in-Tx, Jul 2, 2002.

  1. Mark-in-Tx

    Mark-in-Tx
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    I was told I believe by a professor and I believe it to be true that the Baptist General Convention of Texas has the stance on abortion that all abortions are wrong with the exception of rape and when the life of the mother is in danger. What do you guys think? [​IMG]

    [ July 03, 2002, 01:09 PM: Message edited by: Mark-in-Tx ]
     
  2. Scarlett O.

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    Hi Mark-

    I have to tell you that speaking as a woman, I do not believe that even a vile rape would justify an abortion.

    I tend to have quite a variety of beliefs about women, my own gender. And I am actually quite liberal in terms of women's issues as compared to other members of my own church, my own family, and this board. I just try to keep those to myself as to avoid strife.

    But this is not one of those issues where I am liberal. I believe that aborting the unborn is an abomination before God whether the baby was conceived via Biblical sex, fornication, or rape.

    Even though the filth and ugliness of rape is an epidemic in this country (and that's another topic all together, brother), I cannot say with good conscience that a baby that could possibly be conceived in this manner is not worthy of life.

    A rape is obscene and turns God's stomach.

    A fetus is fearfully and wonderfully made.

    I know a woman that was raped and became pregnant. The whole situation was a nightmare for her and her family and our church. But she kept the baby, has raised the child, and has married and had another child with her new husband.

    The child from the rape is now 8 years old and I have taught her in Vacation Bible School for two years. She is a joy and a blessing.

    I hate rape. I've seen it in women. More than once.

    But not even rape can cancel out the creative powers of the Almighty God.

    Not even rape can be grounds to justify an abortion.

    Peace-

    YSIC
    Scarlett O.
    <><
     
  3. Circuitrider

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    AMEN, Scarlet

    Psalm 139 says it all.
     
  4. Walls

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    Abortion is truly awful and it is our job to cry aloud and spare not against this!

    But first-It is our job,(especially the preachers) to teach the young ones, that God has given us:
    1. to remain pure until the day they are married
    2. what the Bible says about fornication
    3. that children are an heritage of the Lord

    Women, might I remind you of Titus 2:4, we are commanded to teach the younger ones to be sober, love their husbands (not boyfriends),discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands (or parents if unwed), that the word of God be not blasphemed.

    Chances are that those that get abortions have not been taught the above. Remember Christ said "If you love me, keep my commandments"!
     
  5. Baptist Believer

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    Rape is a terrible, detestible thing worthy of execution. I have several friends who were raped and it has caused untold emotional damage and has even hurt them as they try to relate to God and the church. (One was raped by the son of the pastor of her previous church.)

    I have enormous support, sympathy and empathy toward anyone who has suffered the assault and abuse of rape, but that does not change the fact that the unborn child is a human life.

    Abortion is wrong except in cases when the mother's life is in mortal physical danger. Even then it might be the lesser of two evils -- a couple will have to make a very difficult and agonizing decision.
     
  6. Johnv

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    Abortion is wrong except in cases when the mother's life is in mortal physical danger. Not to put a damper on this, but what about late-term abortions? Just curious. Late term abortions generally done when the unborn baby is in the still-born process, and causing the mother to go through childbirth will result in death or with severe physical damage to herself.
     
  7. Don

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    Johnv, if the baby is already dead, is it really an abortion?

    Wouldn't it actually be called a miscarraige?

    "Abortion" literally means the termination of a pregnancy. If the child is still-born, it's not an abortion.
     
  8. Aaron

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    Abortion is wrong. Period.

    In the case of "saving the life of the Mother," which would only be about 2% of the cases, you don't prioritize. You try to save both.
     
  9. Baptist Believer

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    I don't think the percentage would even be that high...

    Certainly you try to save both, but sometimes there is a choice to be made. Often the mother, if conscious, will choose for the baby (she has already bonded with the child because of her pregnancy) and the father will choose the mother (because he knows and loves his wife and does not yet know the child). I think it should be the mother's choice in those extremely rare situations.

    [ July 06, 2002, 01:02 AM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  10. David Cooke Jr

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    I prosecute sex crimes in Atlanta. You would be amazed how many children are raped and impregnated by their own family members. It makes me wonder how accurate our statistics about abortions truly are. I have many cases where we ID'd the defendant via DNA tests from tissue samples from an aborted fetus. In one of the cases, the unborn child's intestines and other internal organs were developing outside of his body, and could not be repaired by surgery, so the rape victim, who was morally opposed to abortion, had to abort her child anyway. I tried the jerk who did it before I went on paternity leave. Last week he was sentenced to 50 years in prison (he had also raped his daughter, niece, and step daughter in addition to this victim).
    I think we need to remember some of the girls who are forced into these situations in our prayers. You'd be surprised how many 11 year olds are in this position.

    [ July 05, 2002, 12:19 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]
     
  11. Headcoveredlady

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    Mr Cooke,
    I do not understand why the young girl "had" to abort the baby. You say she had to because the child had intestines growing outside his body. Is that a reason to abort? If something is wrong with the child, kill it? What if the radiologist was wrong? Could not the God who made the child heal the child?
    I met a lady who told a wonderful story of her life. She told us that she spoke to group of young people in a school and asked them to raise their hands if they thought abortion was wrong in certain cases. First she asked, if the mom does not want the child. Most hands were raised. Then she asked, if the parents did not have enough money. Some hands went down. Then she asked, how about if the baby was conceieved in rape, most hands were down at this point. Then she asked, what if the mother was 12 and was raped by a family member. All but one hand went down. Then she announced, "All of you but this one person think I should be dead, because that is how I was conceived."
    This woman is now a pillar in her community. A pastors wife, she helps him in the huge church that has many, many ministries, including a prolife one. How different this world would be if that women were not allowed to live. God had a plan for her life, as He does for all the children He creates, whether or not they be conceived in wedlock or out of it.

    HCL
     
  12. David Cooke Jr

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    Why did she "have to" abort her child? You'll have to ask her. All I can tell you is, she did not want an abortion, she wanted this child, but many of the child's organs were developing outside of the child's body. Doctors did not think they could either repair the child's problems (save its life) or deliver the child without hurting the mother (I don't know why a C section would not work).
    But all that was beside the point. My point was, their are thousands of young girls out there who are impregnated against their will, and they need our prayers and understanding.
    BTW, "what if the radiologist was wrong"? What kind of logic is that? Yes, Doctor, I know that you are a trained professional who's delivered thousands of babies and I'm just a just an adolescent orphan who's been raped by a family member, but I'll have this baby even though his existence jepordizes my life and he has virtually no chance of survival.
    Great advice. I'll tell all of my incest victims how much some people care about them.

    [ July 06, 2002, 10:09 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]
     
  13. Don

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    Dave, please. Radiologists have been known to be wrong on many occasions, especially in the diagnosis of Down's Syndrome children (where they tell the pregnant mother the child will have Down's, and the baby is born without any trace of it).

    The sarcasm wasn't necessary.
     
  14. David Cooke Jr

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    I'm not talking about something like downs syndrome. I'm talking about looking at an ultrasound and seeing your child's organs all over your uterus. As for my sarcasm, you're right, its as necessary as a cold uncaring attitude that has no compassion for young rape victims.

    [ July 06, 2002, 10:29 PM: Message edited by: David Cooke, Jr. ]
     
  15. Headcoveredlady

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    Mr. Cooke,
    You say that the baby had intestines that were growing outside of the baby's body. I asked you two questions. One, could the radiologist be wrong? And two, could God heal the baby? You answered the first question by telling me I did not care about incest victims and that they would surely die if they gave birth to these type of babies.
    You did not answer my second question. This really is the crux of the matter. Can God be trusted to do whatever He thinks is right in any situation? Could not the God who created the baby with the inestines growing outside of his body, heal the baby? What right have any of us to decide who lives and who dies?
    Actually the Lord cares very much for victims of incest, rape, and babies conceived by fathers who leave the mothers. There are crisis pregnancy centers that can help all of the above victims.
    It seems that you too care for these young people who are victimized in this way. But, does that make the baby a criminal, worthy of death?
    Are you actually saying that if the radiologist sees something wrong with any baby the mother ought to pay an abortionist to murder the baby? Where in Scripture can you find support for this view?

    HCL
     
  16. Helen

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    Wow, David! I've been reading some of your posts -- you sure do add an element of real life here! Thanks for joining in.

    I am not going to condemn the young woman who got the abortion because of the severe deformation of her baby. It doesn't matter if I agree or not. I was not there; I am not her; I don't know if, under that kind of circumstance, whether or not I would do the same.

    But I want to tell another story. This is true. I am on a listserve with some wonderful scientists, many of whom are Christian, but not all of whom are. One of the Christian men and his wife were expecting their second child due a year ago last May (or June, but I think it was May...). In December the ultrasound showed such severe deformation that they knew the little boy would not live more than a few moments outside the womb, if he lived at all. They had a choice to abort and chose not to. And their story of what happened still makes me cry when I read their birth and death announcement of their beloved son. Yes, he was born alive and yes, he died a couple of hours later. But in the meantime, they were able to hold him and love him and say goodbye to him. Their two year old daughter was also able to see her little brother who was on his way to heaven very early and she also was able to hold him wrapped in his blanket for a moment and she leaned down and kissed him.

    Their trust of God in this situation is something I will never, ever forget. They are incredible people and the love and courage they showed affected an incredible number of people -- including some of those non-Christian scientists.

    How many of us could make that decision and do what they did? I don't know. But sometimes when God calls you on a very difficult road, it is so He can show something special through you that will profoundly affect those around you.

    Just a word of encouragement to anyone who might be reading who needs it.
     
  17. Don

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    And I, sir, am talking about the fact that radiologists have been known to be wrong.

    Can you 100% for sure tell us the radiologist wasn't wrong in the case you presented to us?

    If not, then the point is totally did the girl have to allow a doctor to murder her unborn child....

    Yes, it's a crying shame that perverts out there are raping children.

    It's also a crying shame that we somehow believe we have to make two victims instead of one....
     
  18. crazycat

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    Abortion is wrong no matter what. If the mother's life is at stake it is still wrong.
    As being apart of the mediacl community (especially pediatrics) I have seen children raped and pregnant by the rape. It is sad but it is still wrong to kill a child. I also seen mothers with hold chemotherapy because they are pregnant and want to wait until the child is born. They put there life on the back burner for their child. That is a blessing!The medical community needs to stop playing god and start using their God given sense.
    FTR I was raped, molested or what ever you want to call it as a child and teenager several times. i have no idea how i did not get pregnant except by the grace of God. If I did I never ever would of considered abortion, I would however probably choosen to give the child up for adoption. That is what I am sure I would do.

    I do have one big problem with pro lifers though! I went to a prayer breakfast on July fourth and there were prolifers standing out at the park with graphic pictures of aborted babies. I do not think that is something that my two year old and seven year old daughters need to see. I will teach my daughter and raise them right without shoving that in there face. This was a Christian gathering we were at and there was really NO reason why these signs should of been out. If it was an abortion clinic I would understand a little more. But are Christians going out and aborting what God has made? If so, are they really Christian?
     
  19. Baptist Believer

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    Why? If both the mother and child cannot be saved, why would it be wrong to save the mother?

    How are you a part of the medical community? What is your job?

    [ July 07, 2002, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Baptist Believer ]
     
  20. Bible Believing Bill

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    I too attended the gathering on July 4th. These protesters will alwalys be at large gaterings in Rockford. They will stand at the mall entrance, on busy intersections, etc. The first time my 7 yr. old son (5 at the time) saw the pictures they gave him nightmares, and he will still occasionally have a nightmare related to the signs. I do not even think these signs are approiate at the abortion clinic as I may simply be driving by and my children be exposed to them. I saw a protest the other day that took the exact oppisite approach their signs showed happy helathy babies reminding people what they are killing.

    Bill
     

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