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Acts 18.24-19.5

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Frogman, Mar 25, 2004.

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  1. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Brethren,
    I have been studying this passage for a few days. I posted it on one of the passion threads, but there is little passion for discussion there :D .

    Please consider these verses and discuss with me what you believe to be their meaning, if you will.

    I am a strict landmark Baptist meaning I accept and believe in the mother/daughter relationship of organizing of any new NT church. (Just wanted to help you understand what side of the road I am coming from here, and hopefully I haven't yet slid into the ditch [​IMG]

    And a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man, and mighty in the scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man was instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in the spirit, he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord, knowing only the baptism of John. (Acts 18.24 & 25) Note what is said of Apollos he was:


    mighty in the scriptures
    This man was instructed in the way of the Lord
    fervent in spirit
    he spake and taught diligently the things of the Lord
    he knew only the baptism of John

    Now, what does vs. 26 say happened?

    And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquilla and Priscilla had heard, they took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly.

    Continuing into chapter 19 we see that Paul finds 'certain disciples'. (Note that Apollos is mentioned in connection with this as being at Corinth, why is Apollos mentioned here?)

    Paul asks these 'certain disciples' whether they had received the Holy Ghost since they had believed; they answer to him they had not so much as heard whether there be an Holy Ghost.

    Then Paul asked them "Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said unto John's baptism." (Ch. 19 verse 3). Now alot of people have tried to convince me this is not referring to the 'fervent' teaching of Apollos. But just look at the way the context points back to that teaching.

    First, Apollos is introduced, and he is said to know only the 'baptism of John.'

    Then Apollos is continued to be referred to in the immediate context of vs. 3 by name in vs. 1. Then when these 'certain disciples' are questioned by Paul, they answer they were baptized unto "John's baptism". Which statement is most certainly referring us back to ch. 18 and vs. 25.

    So, then we see what harm is in speaking the truth, as certainly Apollos did do, ( being instructed in the way of the Lord, speaking and teaching diligently in the 'things of the Lord', but knowing only the baptism of John), without the 'authority' to do so.

    What are your thoughts?

    God Bless
    Bro. Dallas
     
    #1 Frogman, Mar 25, 2004
  2. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Sir, I don't think it is a matter of authority. What Paul seems to be bringing to the front in chapter 19 is that repentance is only half-way there -- one can, in effect, die at least somewhat to self, but then one must also live to something or someone else.

    Apollos knew the facts about Jesus; he himself had repented and agreed that Jesus was the Messiah. But repenting (which is at least somewhat dying to self) and being immersed in Chirst's death are two different things. Paul says in Romans 6 that we are baptized, or immersed, into Christ's death that we might live with Him. This appears to be what Apollos and those it looks like he taught did not understand yet, which is what Aquila and Priscilla would have instructed him about.

    There is never harm in speaking the truth about God. And God made sure Paul was there to finish the job that Apollos had started.

    Apollos knew Scriptures. That was not enough. It is very similar to a great many scholars today who can recite massive portions and discuss them for hours, but whose hearts are still very much with the world.

    Apollos had learned about Jesus and was excited about Him and was telling people what he knew about our Lord. That is never wrong. It simply wasn't enough. And God made sure someone followed through with 'the rest of the story,' so that believing could go from head only to head and heart, resulting in the people being born again in the Spirit.

    I rather think it is impossible to tell people they may not speak the truth they know about Christ without authority from a church! People speak about their faith to one another all the time, in grocery stores, restaurants, living rooms, airplanes....

    And if a heart is receptive, and if the knowledge imparted is insufficient, as it was in Apollos' case, then God will be faithful to make sure the knowledge is made more complete by some kind of follow up.
     
    #2 Helen, Mar 25, 2004
  3. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    Thanks Helen for your reply. I must respectfully disagree, I know that isn't a surprise :(

    How then is it that this believer presents the word of God in truth and yet there is no authority within it to effect what we receive as 'gospel regeneration'?

    You see, the truth spoken is always necessarily founded upon God's word, of which Apollos is testified by scripture to have been mighty in. Yet, still, possessing a proper understanding of the need of repentance and the water baptism from John, Apollos could not impart to those hearing his message, which if true to that of John would have been a message of repentance and fruit of repentance.

    Still, his message possessed no power to impart the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit' which I think your post is proposing that was missing, if I am incorrect, please tell me I don't want to put words in your mouth.

    What I am saying is that it is the church collectively gathered on the day of Pentecost that received the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that believers receive an indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    I know you won't agree with me anymore because of what I have written. But this authority is different than you or I speaking to those we meet on a daily basis that which is our testimony of the Grace of God.

    I have to go for now, but please add to our discussion. I am not looking to argue, nor to change your understanding. I am looking to increase my own understanding. Whether this happens or not is not depended upon you but my own willingness to see the other point.

    Thanks again for the reply.

    BTW, I appreciate the respect for calling me 'Sir', but that is not necessary, 'sir' in Vietnamese dialect means 'stupid'; so, if you mean 'stupid' please just say it ;)

    Bro. Dallas [​IMG]
     
    #3 Frogman, Mar 25, 2004
  4. sparkle

    sparkle New Member

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    Off topic, I realize, but does 'sir' truly mean that in Vietnamese? Sort of hard for a southern girl to stop saying 'sir'!!! :D

    This is an interesting topic. I would like to study this passage, as well.
     
    #4 sparkle, Mar 25, 2004
  5. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    My dad arrived in S. Vietnam in February 1966; for two weeks he thought the people there were the most well mannered in the world. They kept calling him 'sir' when ever they addressed him. He finally asked someone why they were so considerate to him, it was because they were calling him stupid.

    Oh well. He later was able to communicate with them through common sign language learned from his dad and uncle who were both deaf.

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #5 Frogman, Mar 25, 2004
  6. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    I know, alot of it flies right over my head too, but I am short, only 5'6" :D :(

    I don't have to duck very often [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #6 Frogman, Mar 25, 2004
  7. Frogman

    Frogman <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr

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    If this passage is not referring to an 'authority', by what authority did Aquilla and Priscilla take him aside and instruct him more perfectly?

    Bro. Dallas
     
    #7 Frogman, Mar 25, 2004
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