Acts 8 and 10. "Filling" at Conversion or is it different?

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by mr. messy, Feb 24, 2005.

  1. mr. messy

    mr. messy
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    Questions...Are we filled at conversion? We believe we are. In our topical Bible Study we were covering Simon the Sorcerer from Acts 8:9-25. See Acts 8:14-17 KJVA...
    (14) "Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
    (15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
    (16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
    (17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost." ...The order seems to be belief, water baptism, then filling with the Spirit from Acts 8. But observe what happened when Peter came to Cornelius house...Acts 10:44-48 KJVA...
    (44) "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
    (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
    (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
    (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days." ... The order of events seems to change again. ...Here we find belief, filling of the Spirit, speaking in tongues, and finally water baptism. ...Should we consider changing our beliefs based on Acts 8:14-17 or Acts 10:44-48?... Should we speak with tongues or not?...Are we correct in teaching that the Spirit comes to the new Christian at conversion? ...Where in the Bible does it clearly teach at a person is filled with the Spirit when that person is converted or saved ? ...It is not clear from Acts 8 and 10 to us. We are confused. ... Also how do we view Acts 8 and Acts 10 which helped to raise these questions for me or for us? ...Thanks for reading and your reply. We need to know what we believe and why we believe. We need to be "equipped." Thanks, Mr. Messy.
     
  2. James_Newman

    James_Newman
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    I think you would have to define what you mean by filling and conversion. There is an indwelling of the Holy Spirit that I think every believer is imparted, then there is the filling of the Holy Spirit like we see in Acts (with or without miraculous sign gifts...) that I believe may accompany conversion. Conversion need not occur at the time a person becomes a believer, although this is probably not uncommon. Perhaps it may occur after baptism for many as well. Peter's 'conversion' took place after the Lord's death, but by his confession I would say that he was already saved.

    Matthew 16:15-17
    [15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    Luke 22
    31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
    32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
     
  3. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    Mr. Messy,

    Even a very casual and careless reading of the Book of Acts reveals that God is not an Orphan Annie rag doll that we can squeeze into a theological or denominational box. God is highly versatile and does what He wants to do when He wants to do it. If that means stepping on the toes of a few Baptists, the toes are going to be stepped on. Very many denominations are founded upon the experiences of their members rather than on any clear teaching in the Bible, and that is especially true of experiences with the Holy Spirit.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
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    :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
     
  5. Brownov

    Brownov
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    Mr. Messy,

    Ephesians 1:12-14
    12That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
    13In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
    14Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

    The Holy Spirit indwells the believer at salvation. It is this indwelling which acts as the down payment for the promise of redemption. If there were a gap between salvation and the indwelling, then there would apparently be a time in which the believer has trusted Christ, yet is not assured of eternal life.

    Romans 8:9
    9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


    I Corinthians 6:11
    11And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

    If somehow, we could accept Christ, but not recieve the Spirit, then we would be an unwashed, unjustified Christian. That is no different from being unsaved.

    The passages in Acts must be understood in their historical context. Acts is a historical book. It describes the historical account of the transitional time during the development of the church. Acts tells us what happened then, it is not necessarily the standard by which we must judge current events.
     
  6. mr. messy

    mr. messy
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    Thank you everyone for your comments and your verses. Mr. Messy.
     

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