Adam and Eve

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by CompassionFlower, Feb 20, 2003.

  1. CompassionFlower

    CompassionFlower
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    Dear Friends:

    What does a baptist believe about Adam and Eve. They were perfect, spiritually alive. They sinned, and gained the sin nature. Did this than mean that they were lost to salvation? The issue of salvation never came up until they had sinned. Gensis 3:15 was never spoken till after Adam and Eve sinned, the promise of Christ.

    My knowledge would be based on a JW. That would be Adam and Eve sinned willfully and thus brought death on themselves, with no resurrection, the penalty for sin was death. Yes, this is wrong, but how do you come to an answer?

    Sincerely, Pam
     
  2. Daniel David

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    Adam and Eve did not lose their salvation. They did not need it until after they sinned. They were untested or better put, innocent.
     
  3. Caretaker

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    Genesis 3:
    21: Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.

    JFB Commentary:
    21. God made coats of skins--taught them to make these for themselves. This implies the institution of animal sacrifice, which was undoubtedly of divine appointment, and instruction in the only acceptable mode of worship for sinful creatures, through faith in a Redeemer

    (Hebrews 9:22).
    9:22
    According to the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

    Genesis 9:22 is the first sacrifice for sin and would place Adam and Eve in the same category as all of the Old Testament saints, looking forward to the fulfillment of Redemption on Calvary.

    From Wesley's explanatory notes:

    3:21 These coats of skin had a significancy. The beasts whose skins they were, must be slain; slain before their eyes to shew them what death is. And probably 'tis supposed they were slain for sacrifice, to typify the great sacrifice which in the latter end of the world should be offered once for all. Thus the first thing that died was a sacrifice, or Christ in a figure.

    3:24 God drove him out - This signified the exclusion of him and his guilty race from that communion with God which was the bliss and glory of paradise. But whether did he send him when he turned him out of Eden? He might justly have chased him out of the world, Job 18:18, but he only chased him out of the garden: he might justly have cast him down to hell, as the angels that sinned were, when they were shut out from the heavenly paradise, 2 Peter 2:4, but man was only sent to till the ground out of which he was taken. He was only sent to a place of toil, not to a place of torment. He was sent to the ground, not to the grave; to the work - house, not to the dungeon, not to the prison - house; to hold the plough, not to drag the chain: his tilling the ground would be recompensed by his eating its fruits; and his converse with the earth, whence he was taken, was improveable to good purposes, to keep him humble, and to mind him of his latter end. Observe then, That though our first parents were excluded from the privileges of their state of innocency, yet they were not abandoned to despair; God's thoughts of love designing them for a second state of probation upon new terms. And he placed at the east of the garden of Eden, a detachment of cherubim, armed with a dreadful and irresistible power, represented by flaming swords which turned every way, on that side the garden which lay next to the place whither Adam was sent, to keep the way that led to the tree of life.

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


    A servant of Christ,
    Drew
     
  4. CompassionFlower

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    Drew: Thank you very much for explaining that and using the scriptures.

    Blessings, Pam
     
  5. danielleedwards

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    DREW,
    THANK YOU FOR THE REPLAY TO PAMS QUESTION I JUST STARTED MY OWN LITTLE BIBLE STUDY ON MY OWN. IT WAS A QUESTION I WAS WONDERING WHEN I WAS READING LAST NIGHT. THANK YOU AGAIN .

    GOD BLESS YOU,
    DANIELLE
     
  6. Aaron

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    Doesn't seem that Adam or Eve could have been saved.
     
  7. Helen

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    "renew them again unto repentance"...

    They had not already repented and THEN fallen away that this would have applied to them, Aaron.

    Their repentance, assuming that they repented, would have been new, not REnewed.
     
  8. Ben W

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    I think that Adam and Eve were created to live eternally and never die. I think the concept of death was brought into the world by sin.
     
  9. Aaron

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    The point is that those who once had spiritual life, if they fall away, cannot regain it. Abel was the first one to become righteous through faith, not Adam nor Eve.

    Abel is the first righteous man, the first martyr, the first in the long list of those who by faith pleased God.

    Adam, like Cain, Esau, Saul, Ahab, etc. is nowhere mentioned in the context of any kind of righteousness or example to the church, but always as a warning and a reason for the Curse.

    The Inspired Version of the Bible (Joseph Smith's adulteration) contains a detailed account of Adam's repentance and renewal. But it's a lie.

    [ March 08, 2003, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Aaron ]
     
  10. Aaron

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    Consider Esau, who is a type of Adam. He was first born and had all the rights of the first born, but he sold his birthright to satisfy the lusts of his flesh. The Holy Spirit testifies that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears..

    The lesson is clear. Those who once had life, if they fall away, lose it forever. Notice that Esau sought repentance carefully with tears, but he was given no place.

    This is what happened to Adam, who despised his "birthright" when he disobeyed for the sake of his wife.

    This is indeed something to which we should give heed.
     
  11. Helen

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    Aaron, all of us start out spiritually alive, otherwise there would be no such thing as a name being erased from the Book of Life...

    You hold a Calvinist view of all this. I disagree with you and think the Bible does, too.

    So, for the record, I want to say that the Bible is silent about Adam and Eve because God does not want us judging them! They are the only people in all of history to have ever been in those shoes. And, after all, who raised both Cain AND Abel?

    We may have some big surprises in heaven.
     
  12. Aaron

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    Actually, the Bible agrees precisely with what I have posted. It is not silent about Adam at all, and certainly the eternal state of a figure as significant as Adam is revealed.

    BTW, "renew" does not mean "repent again." It is like "replenish" in Gen. 1:28.
     
  13. Daniel David

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    As has been pointed out in countless threads, this statement is not only false, but heresy. If all were not conceived in sin (Romans 5:12-14), then Christ does not have to be the savior of all.

    "As in Adam all die, so in Christ shall all be made alive."

    All people start off under Adam's headship. Only those who are born from above come under Christ's headship.

    I just needed to point this out for others.
     
  14. Daniel David

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    I know you like to label people Calvinists that disagree with you, but this has nothing in the world to do with calvinism. Non-calvinists such as Adrian Rogers and Tom Farrell would completely disagree with what you said in your post.

    Misrepresentation is not good for discussion, Helen. What you hold to is an extreme pelagianism (nothing Romans 5 couldn't cure).
     
  15. D.R.

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    Helen,

    I think you are assuming much from your comment that our names are erased from the Book of Life. Where do you get this teaching in the Bible? Knowing it is not explicit, where is it found implicitly. What you have done is a fallacy of composition, by assuming an unproven argument in your proposition. Please prove this supposition before making any further truth claims.
    dr
     
  16. D.R.

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    Also Helen,

    you have denied the doctrine of original sin, a very unBaptist thing to do. We baptists were founded on it, even the Arminian Baptists.
    dr
     
  17. Helen

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    I do not deny original sin. I deny that you or I are responsible for it. I affirm that we are affected by it in inheriting sin natures (Gen. 8:21)

    Please check Psalm 69:28 -- names are blotted out. They cannot be blotted out if they were not there in the first place.

    And please read Romans 7:7-11. What condition was Paul in before he knew the law?

    This gives us a very clear direction regarding where babies and children who die are.

    Check Numbers 20:29 for a physical picture. All were rescued from Egypt, but those 20 and over who had rebelled were held accountable for that rebellion and died in the desert. Whether or not their children had joined them, the children were not held accountable. They were not only rescued from Egypt (sin), but were ushered into the Promised Land.

    And don't tell me or anyone I am denying what the Bible says.

    Thank you.
     
  18. Tim

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    Aaron's quote:"Consider Esau, who is a type of Adam. He was first born and had all the rights of the first born, but he sold his birthright to satisfy the lusts of his flesh. The Holy Spirit testifies that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears..

    The lesson is clear. Those who once had life, if they fall away, lose it forever. Notice that Esau sought repentance carefully with tears, but he was given no place."

    Aaron, I realize I'm a little late on this response, but I think you're misinterpreting this passage from Hebrews. Esau was seeking repentance (a change of mind) in Isaac, not in himself. Esau was only interested in a different result--this was not a change of heart.

    In Christ,

    Tim
     
  19. A.J.Armitage

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    The last letter of TULIP represents the Perseverance of the Saints. None can pluck the sheep out of His hand.
     
  20. BWSmith

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    &gt; What does a baptist believe about Adam and Eve.

    I for one, believe that Adam and Eve were not real, historical people.

    They represent what is expressed plainly in Gen 8:21: that the inclination of the heart of mankind is to sin (and blame it on others), even in the most perfect conditions.
     

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