Adamic Nature

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ray Berrian, May 6, 2003.

  1. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    When we are born again our sins of the past are cleansed in His atonement. When a saint dies he or she goes into the Presence of the Lord. [II Cor. 5:8] In order for this to happen the Adamic nature or Original Sin must be also atoned for in His provision of grace.

    Why then do we retain the 'Sin nature' until death or until His coming for the church? [I Thess. 5:23] We are told by Paul that we are ' . . . preserved blameless until & {at} the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.'

    It is this source, the Adamic nature, that all of our sins of omission and commission come from.

    How can the Adamic nature be covered in the atonement insuring safe passage to the saint to Heaven, and yet it remains in us throughout our lifetime?
     
  2. Yelsew

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    Atonement does not cleanse, it pays for! Atonement of the sins of the world removes the sins from judgment so that only the faith condition of each person exhonerates or condemns.

    That is in keeping with, "For by Grace (the removal of sin's penalty) are ye saved through faith, and not of yourself, it is a gift of God, not of works (works are not a consideration for salvation or judgment) lest anyman should boast.

    Belief in Jesus, hence his blood that was shed for us, is what cleanses us. The spirit cannot be washed in any physical way, therefore it is our belief that washes away the sins.
     
  3. KenH

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    I sing the hymn:

    "What can wash away my sin?
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus." [​IMG]
     
  4. Yelsew

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    I sing the hymn:

    "What can wash away my sin?
    Nothing but the blood of Jesus." [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]If you do not believe in the blood of Jesus are you still washed thereby?
     
  5. Frogman

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    This is a fair and honest question, but it is one you answered before you asked it of us. Listen to your heart the Spirit is showing truth that is everlasting.

    if you have difficulty with believing the words of Paul, hear what Christ said:

    11  ¶And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
    12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
    13  And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
    14  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
    15  I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

    It is as Titus 2.11 declares: "For the Grace of God that bringeth salvation...."

    Salvation is by Grace and the perserverance is by Grace; 'to be strong in Grace is to be weak in sin.' A.W. Pink

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  6. Ray Berrian

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    If we had our Adamic nature removed during this life time, would we not have our curse removed from our lives as Christians? In other words, the cure of pain in child-bearing and the curse of 'working by the sweat of the brow.' Wouldn't we then live forever on this earth if God removed the Adamic nature? because we would not die physically any more. I know these ideas are hypothetical.

    Apparently, if He removed the Adamic nature we would no longer pass along Original Sin.

    Can we safely say theologically speaking that God see our Original Sin through His blood but we retain our Adamic nature until death or His appearing? [I Thess. 5:23]
     
  7. KenH

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    Yes, when speaking of all of those for whom Christ died.
     
  8. Frogman

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    Here is what I understand from reading your post, if incorrect please forgive me and correct me:

    The atonement is the covering for our sins, yet they still curse the flesh...John 6.63 I believe would be the Bible reference to use here, then our sin nature is covered by the garment of righteousness which is provided through the atonement of Christ, which is the righteousness of God, even so, this is for the spiritual rebirth, and the flesh is still condemned to die, to suffer in this world, etc. (Ref. Rom. 8.20-23 I believe). It is at the resurrection that our bodies will be then made prepared to stand in the eternal presence of the Glory of God. It is toward this time, yet future that we presently groan 'to wit' the verses say the following:

    Romans 8:20  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
    21  Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
    22  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
    23  And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

    The work of adoption, that is the redemption of the body is eternally complete to the children of God, but is not realized in them until the resurrection.

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  9. Frogman

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    followup on my last post, I believe this scripture at Gen. 3.17 is very significant:

    17  ¶And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

    The bold lettering is added by me to emphasize the reason God did curse the ground. Let's discuss this, as it seems to me to speak of the reasons for which these concerns may be brought up and through discussion we shall by the leadership of the Holy Spirit be brought into the Glorious Light of Truth.

    question:
    1. Why did God say the ground was cursed?

    Consider these scripture:

    2 Corinthians 4:17  For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    2 Corinthians 6:4  But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
    2 Corinthians 7:10  For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
    2 Corinthians 8:2  How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

    Also consider that a word search renders the words or combination of words found in scripture usage of affliction and patience (searced as affliction worketh patience), 146 times used and found in 137 passages.

    Consider Is. 48:6-10:

    48:6  Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
    7  They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.
    8  Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.
    9  ¶For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.
    10  Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.


    Bro. Dallas
     
  10. Eladar

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    According to the Bible, this means that growing food is now going to be difficult. Gathering food which was once easy will now require much work. It is a punishment.
     
  11. Frogman

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    A punishment for the sake of who?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  12. Eladar

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    A curse to be suffered by everyone. We still suffer under the curse today.
     
  13. Frogman

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    I asked for who's sake the curse is placed on the earth.

    For what purpose does suffering serve?

    Bro. Dallas
     
  14. Eladar

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    It is a punishment. I wouldn't say that a punishment is for anyone's sake. Punishments are meant to teach a lesson. The lesson is that we should listen to God's commands.
     
  15. KenH

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    ~ gracEmail ~
    Edward Fudge
    ________________________________

    TWO REPRESENTATIVE MEN

    A thoughtful gracEmail subscriber writes: "It is true that we are sinners as a result of Adam's sin--he was the doorway through which sin entered the world. Adam has become our father in a physical sense, and also in a figurative sense in regards to sin. This is similar to the person described as 'the father of those who play flutes' (Gen. 4:21). We do not inherit sin--we are influenced and corrupted by the sin brought into the world through Adam."

    * * *

    I understand your point. However, I believe that Paul is saying more than that Adam introduced sin into the world and that we were corrupted by its presence and influence. I say this for two reasons--both found in Romans 5:12-21. The first reason is Paul's own explanation in verses 13-14 of the statement he had just made in verse 12 that "all sinned." The second reason is Paul's larger contrast in this passage between the conduct of Adam and Jesus and the contrasting effects of the conduct of both men.

    Paul begins by stating that "through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned" (v. 12). What does Paul mean in saying that "all sinned"? Does he mean that we all sinned in our own experience (something other Scriptures certainly say)? Or does he mean that we all sinned in Adam as our representative? Paul does not leave us to guess. He immediately explains what he means in verses 13-14, beginning with the introductory word "for." Sin was in the world during the period from Adam until the Law of Moses, Paul continues. However, God does not count sin against people unless they violate his direct law (v. 13). Yet "death reigned" through the period from Adam to Moses, even though the people living then had no direct law from God and had not violated God's direct command as Adam did (v. 14). The only explanation, Paul seems to say, is that we all sinned in Adam our representative.

    The second reason I believe that Paul is saying that we sinned in Adam our representative is that throughout these verses Paul contrasts what happened to us in Adam (because of what he did) and what happened to us in Christ (because of what he did). We see such contrasts in almost every verse from 15-21. Just as we sinned in Adam, we were made righteous in Christ. Adam's sin made us sinners (who prove that by sinning personally as soon as we learn how), but Christ's obedience set us right with God. Jesus Christ is the second or last Adam--the representative and head of a new humankind. And for that we may heartily praise God!
    ____________________

    © 2003 Edward Fudge - Unlimited permission to copy without altering text or profiteering is hereby granted subject to inclusion of this copyright notice. Visit website at www.EdwardFudge.com for thousands of pages of spiritual resources.
     
  16. Frogman

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    God said it was for thy sake [this includes me].

    Why did God say it was for our sake?

    To teach humility.

    Consider these scripture:

    2 Corinthians 4:17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;
    2 Corinthians 6:4 But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,
    2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
    2 Corinthians 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.

    Also consider that a word search renders the words or combination of words found in scripture usage of affliction and patience (searced as affliction worketh patience), 146 times used and found in 137 passages.

    Consider Is. 48:6-10:

    48:6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.
    7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.
    8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.
    9 ¶For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.
    10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

    This is why we yet possess the adamic nature in the flesh. That we seek and draw all our strength from the Grace of God that is in Christ and seek it from none other, even after we are saved, so then how must we be saved?

    God Bless.
    Bro. Dallas
     
  17. Eladar

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    I can think of two other possibilities of the meaning:

    1)For your sake means because of you

    2)For your sake, in other words so that you will learn to stop going against God's commands.
     
  18. Frogman

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    The heart of man does despise humility before God; this is true, I have been taught in the furnace of affliction.

    God Bless Brother.

    Bro. Dallas Eaton
     
  19. Ray Berrian

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    Ken H,

    Thanks for the information from the pen of Ed Fudge. It was helpful.

    Ed Fudge said, 'We do not inherit sin--we are influenced and corrupted by the sin brought into the world through Adam.'

    Are you saying that you believe what Dr. Fudge said, 'that we do not inherit sin {Adamic Nature?' All sinners are influenced and corrupted by sin that came through Adam's great sin.

    I might be wrong but I believe every sinner inherits his personalized Adamic nature or Original Sin.
     
  20. Frogman

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    I agree with you brother Ray, and I believe the answer to the question of 'Ed Fudge's' comments agrees with you.

    Bro. Dallas
     

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