Admonishing a pastor

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by micahaaron, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    Does a christian have a right to admonish a pastor if the pastor is not feeding the congregation? I mean the pastor give light and fluffy messages and not deep penetrating convicting messages.
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    I guess you can. Sheep bleat when hungry, don't they ? The Bible says in 1 Timothy 5:1 "rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father, and the younger men as brethren."

    So, yeah, there it is, "intreat" which is entreat which is to make an earnest request of.

    Just speak kindly.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

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    Admonish? That is a tough word. Friendly discussion on how YOU see the ministry (and listen when he tells you how HE sees it).

    And never never never, let me repeat, never go to the pastor to admonish, reprimand, etc, without 2-3 witnesses. Not cronies of yours that you've poisoned with your own thoughts; but neutral - perhaps deacons or elders - that will witness what is said and the spirit in which it is said.

    I say that for YOUR safety. If it comes down to the pastor's word v your word, the congregation had better believe HIM first. And you're out. So get witnesses.

    And not your wife.
     
  4. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    What is the correct way to tell your pastor his sermons are weak? What if he perceives your challenging his authority?
     
  5. j_barner2000

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    Personally, if you felt my sermons were weak, I would ask that you come and talk to me about it. Of course, Biblically, it should be done kindly, and in a spirit of love.

    I may be way off base here but, perhaps he is looking at the general level of growth of most of the congregation. If most are babes, then he has to provide milk. If they are more spiritually mature, then meat. If most are more mature, then talk to the pastor... If most are still babes then try to help your pastor to grow them.
     
  6. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    Jbarner,
    I belong to a church plant. We have 6 committed families and a few singles. All of us I would determine are young to mature in spiritual growth. Only 1 family I would consider babes.
    The Pastor preaches topical. I get more out of his wednesday night home group than sunday morning sermons.
     
  7. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    This may be intentional. I try to keep it simpler on Sunday morning, simply because of the reality that Sunday AM Christians are usually the weakest, and there are a lot of visitors there who will be snowed by too much. You might inquire as to what his purpose his. Of course, we can all get something out of every message.
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433
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    When I read the first posting I was reminded of a verse and a saying.

    Prov. 10:19, "When there are many words, transgression is unavoidable, But he who restrains his lips is wise."

    "An empty bag makes the most noise."

    Until you have earned the right to be heard you will probably not be heard.

    Get to know the pastor better and then see if he considers you wise. When he considers you wise and can trust you, then perhaps he may confide in you.
     
  9. Precepts

    Precepts
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    Sorry, Doc, I know you mean the above completely serious, but I couldn't help but roll when I saw the last statement. [​IMG] :eek:

    How true! How true! [​IMG]
     
  10. Precepts

    Precepts
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    J_Barner
    Don't under-estimate yourself, I'd have to say ,"Right on target!"

    If the pastor isn't anymore sensitive to the needs of the congregation than to what they need, he should resign. A true shepherd will feed his sheep what they need most in their growing stages, but not withold a more suitable diet as they grow to prevent stagnation and thereby stunt their growth.

    Also he should be backed up by "well-seasoned" members who see the same needs for maturity, a little at a time, you wouldn't want to stuff their "mouths" full and choke them in the process.

    I hope your congregation appreciates you as much as I do your response.


    "pastor Larry"
    Exactly! Just "tell me the story of Jesus, write on my heart every word".

    Let me hear it again, that old,old story of Jesus and His love!

    Sometimes we who have a regular diet of "meat" need milk to go along with it. But milk should never remain the main course every meal, you have to tear the meat up into littel pieces so "small" mouths can chew it, but later on as they grow, give whole cuts, not "cold cuts" If you know what I mean!

    Same note as above to j_barner! Thanks! I'm getting REAL encouragement in this section! [​IMG]
     
  11. j_barner2000

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    My pastor has taught me to keep my sermons for Sunday morn light snacks. The Evening service and Wed night studies are typically the full meal.
     
  12. Jamal5000

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    I understand the admonishing part, but how do you define a weak sermon?

    I personally believe that a pastor should stand up there no more than 15-20 minutes. The attention of a typical Christian doesn't last much longer than that.

    Do sermons come off as weak due to only surface analysis?

    Not sure. I admit that I haven't heard many bad sermons. I get something out of everything.

    [​IMG]
    J5Grand
     
  13. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    Why so?

    I have heard and been under and listened to many preachers on sunday morning give decent meals. Is this ploy to keep it light more of "Church Growth idea" versus just generally giving a decent sermon?
     
  14. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    Why do pastors give topical messages more than expository? Are they limited on time in a week? Unknowledgable in doing expository messages?

    When my pastor does it, it shows. Even previous pastors I've been under does the same thing, it shows. What shows you may ask? The main point of the message. Instead I hear a bunch of little points randomly put together with a 30 minute introduction on current events or the last 2 sermons from the last two sundays. It shows.
     
  15. j_barner2000

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    The idea is to look at the audience... As a pastor (teacher)... the goal is to feed (teach)as many as possible while they are there. In a perfect situation all would be at the same or similar level. However, the congregants are not.

    It is the same frustration shared in school. The teacher has so many to teach and so lttle time to do it that they have to gear the instruction to the median level. The brightest are stunted and the ones who are behind get further behind.

    Typically you have less spiritually educated folks show up only on Sunday Morn... therefore you preach to their level. During the evening and midweek study you can dig much deeper to feed the more mature Christian.

    Ideal? NOOOO!!!!!!!!!! reality? aparantly..
     
  16. micahaaron

    micahaaron
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    Well that's pretty sad!

    I have struggled with this sermon issue since I was saved 11 years ago with different pastors along the way. Some preached the meat, some preached the milk. Inwardly, I am a PH.D. Poor Hungry and Driven. I want more. I struggle with less. I dont how to share my frustrations with sounding arrogant or know-it-all to my current pastor. That's why I posted.
     
  17. j_barner2000

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    I, as a new preacher, am having to figure out that very dilemma. What level should I preach at. Aim at the newest Christian and frankly bore the more advanced, Aim in the middle and bore the advanced and miss some of the less mature. Aim high and hope the less than advanced will ask questions or be discipled by the more mature members... It is a tightrope preachers walk. The more I learn about pastoral ministry, the less I realize I know about pastoral ministry.
     
  18. PastorGreg

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    I hope this isn't taken wrong, but I just don't see the dilemma that is being discussed here. If God has called and gifted a man and he is immersed in God's Word - just preach. Spiritually mature people will not be bored being reminded of basic truth unless you present it in a boring fashion. Spiritually immature people can grasp any concept in Scripture if you communicate like a normal person. This is another reason why expository preaching is so far superior. I don't have to decide what to say based on who's there. God knows who will be there when he leads me to a particular passage, and the Holy Spirit can take the same words and meet a dozen different needs. He is Awesome (in the proper sense of the word.)
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    A well-crafted sermon, replete with appropriate illustration and application and expository (word-for-word out of the Word) in nature is a delight.

    I work HARD at doing this. Preach 40-45 minutes and always wish I had more time. It ALWAYS has a clear Gospel message on the "bottom shelf" so it can be reached by all. But the Gospel is just a tiny part of NT truth.

    I've listened to some frothy pablum for 10 minutes and thank God for my study Bible so that I can read and study and not waste my time.
     
  20. Joseph_Botwinick

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