Am I Missing Something?

Discussion in 'Creation vs. Evolution' started by Administrator2, Oct 31, 2002.

  1. Administrator2

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    PHILLIP

    Am I missing something or are we (creationists) trying a little too hard to please the scientific community with physical reasons why we were created? I guess my actual question is, are we leaving room for God to use his supernatural forces and maybe there are 'no' answers for some of the things we observe? Does everything in creation have to have a scientific justification or it cannot be real? Just wondering aloud....
     
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    HELEN

    Hi Phillip, and welcome back!

    You asked about us trying to please the scientific community about WHY we were created. I don't think that the 'why' question is a matter for science at all, actually. That one definitely is a religious question, or a belief question.

    The 'how' is certainly in disputed, however!

    As far as God using miracles or natural forces, you have a point. However Paul mentions in Romans 1 regarding creation being a witness to God. This, to me, means that the more we discover about creation, the more we learn about part of the character of God. That is science. There's good science and bad science, but I suppose it is all science -- or man trying to figure out nature through one means or another.

    My personal belief is that God has told us in the Bible just where He used miraculous intervention, and where extraordinary natural events occurred. And we are given the fun and job of going from there. For me it is fun, although it is certainly a lot of work. But to me it also continues to reveal the incredible intelligence of our Creator that each tiny little thing is so complex and yet interrelated to so much else. There is no way chance could have done that, and humans are consistently trying to imitate nature in terms of scientific advancements. I think that says a lot right there.

    For a lot of wonderful brothers and sisters in Christ, there is no need for scientific explanations of any sort where belief in Christ is concerned. But for a number of others, the fact that it all fits together is almost a requirement for their trust in God. Judge the way you like, but that is what I seem to have seen. And so for us weaker folk in Christ who really do need and want it to all fit together, science is a biggie.

    In the long run, though, it is God Himself who will perfect us and our knowledge, and so I am learning to rest more and more in that with my 'advancing years.'

    God bless you. Good topic!
     
  3. Administrator2

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    PHILLIP

    Thank you Helen for a nice reply. I want to be clear that I am not against science in the least. It has always fascinated me since I watched the mercury flights as a little boy. Besides getting my first telescope one of the most exciting nights of my life (short of my Christian experiences) was finding NASA's satellite locator on the net and going outside to see MIR fly by shining like a brilliant diamond, only about a week or so before it was crashed. I LOVE SCIENCE and the observations we see today. Space happens to be my favorite subject and shots from Hubble are incredible. Although, I am not at the level of the scientists discussing creation and evolution on this website, my background is highly limited to physical and practical design engineering where I take laws of nature and accept them as accurate without having the capability of studying their backgrounds, origins or reasons for being--and use them in a practical way to build something (usually electronic) to do a specific function. I wish I had a deeper background, but I do observe enough to appreciate God's handywork. I envy you who are much more capable in understanding the underlying mathematics and physics.

    I realize that we are seeing the work of God. I realized that---- when I watched my pet duck fly across the back yard and realize there is no way possible for that to happen in an evoluntionary step or continuous life-form modification. The physics of flight---especially as complex as that of an animal like a duck is just not capable of occuring one step at a time until it is perfected. Just pull a few wing features out and you have an animal that can't get two feet off the ground. Even the wings show the complex design of the master creator by using a skeletal base upon which two different sizes and classes of strands are used to create lift, provide stability, prevent water logging AND can be combed down and repaired relatively easily with the duck's beak if damaged ruffled beyond useful form.

    I look at my computer and realize it is designed by somebody. I look at my dog and I see a design that is far too complex for humans, let alone chance.

    I also agree 100% that there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with exploring God's creation. Whether it be at the sub-atomic level or level of the entire universe. The more complexity I see in space, the more I realize that God is capable of anything and we have obviously only seen a tiny, tiny fraction of that.

    I did not mean that we should not make scientific observations, I want to make that clear. I just want to also make it clear that I have no problem if God decided to do something 'outside' of the laws of physics that we all are familiar with. He is not limited by physical laws or gravity/time/space limitations. Therefore, if he broke a rule of physics during creation, I have no problem with that and if something is unexplanable, I am sure we will find out soon enough. I also think that we may observe things from our extremely limited point of view that seem to be somewhat in conflict with our faith---we cannot let this disturb us because we must always accept that as science changes and grows, so will the observations, but my other point was that we cannot totally throw out the possibility of completely supernatural events which have occurred that don't make sense to the observer. This is a horrible argument for non-Christian scientists, but we as Christians must accept the possibility. At least that is the way I see it.

    (I still think the Earth revolves around the Sun... :D
     
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    DEACON

    First of all I’d like to clarify terms so that we are all on the same page. I define a Creationist as anyone who believes God had a part in the universe's creation and includes both young-earth and old-earth creationists. The term has been highjacked over the past 40 years and now many only recognize the term as relating to young-earth creationism. So it is a good idea to state specifically what type of creationist/creationism you are talking about when you use the term.
    The basic doctrine of Creation is fundamental to Christian theology. You can’t be a Christian and not believe that God created. The question then is, HOW? You ask,
    God works in many ways. While there have been attempts by unbelievers to explain the resurrection in natural terms, It remains a unquestioned supernatural miracle for believers. I don’t think anyone questions God’s abilities; we only search for His methods. Yes.God works in many different ways. Understanding how God works doesn’t mean we can’t give Him glory for the wonders He performs. What are the ways God works? God maintains (provides, upholds, keeps up, sustains), moves (stirs, arouses, influences, drives, affects, touches), preserves (saves, shields, safeguards, defends, conserves, protects, shelters). Each of these is a work of God. Thank God for each breath you breathe, it’s a miracle of His provenience.

    Here are only a smattering of verses concerning God’s testimony and His providential care for all men.

    Probably the most quoted verse about God’s revelation through His creation is Romans 1:18-21. “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.”

    In Acts 14:15-17 Paul and Barnabus declare, “…the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.”

    Matthew 5:45 states: “…for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.”

    Throughout His Word, God testifies that He communicates to man through His creation. "By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command..." (Hebrews 11:3) Understanding is the reward of faith. Augustine said, “Therefore seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand."

    You ask,
    We seek to comprehend the universe around us. Part of subduing the earth is understanding it. If you don’t pay attention to what is happening in the world around you, you run the risk of being marginalized. As scientists learn more about the world, they acquire new philosophies; they form new theories, and develop new technologies. Similar things can be said about theology. Theology is not a static or stagnant field of study. A person cannot learn all there is about theology just as one cannot learn all there is about the sciences. We need to learn and to integrate that knowledge into the world where we live.
    That the challenge! How do we find out? We search. We learn. We propose hypothesizes.
     

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