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Amazed By Grace?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011.

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Amazed by Grace or Faith?

  1. I am amazed by His Grace in choosing me, and we rightly sing "Amazing Grace"

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%

  2. I am amazed by my Faith, and we should sing "Amazing Faith"

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  3. His Grace is what saved me, He gets the Glory

    9 vote(s)
    90.0%

  4. My Faith saved me, but I'll give Him the Glory

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  5. Thinking we are Saved by His Grace is wrong, Faith saved us

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  6. To think Faith actually saved us is to miss the point of Scripture. It's about His Grace.

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%

  7. Without electing Grace, and the gift of faith, we could not be saved

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%

  8. God didn't choose me by Grace, I chose Him by Faith

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  9. I didn't choose God by Faith, He chose me by Grace

    5 vote(s)
    50.0%

  10. Faith transcends Grace, man controls being saved or not, not God

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Top Posters
Page 3 of 5
  1. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    It's been explained many times. We believe that we are saved by grace which is applied through faith, so it would not be inaccurate to save that on is saved by/through faith because that the means through which saving grace is applied. I don't think I can explain that any more clearly. This is very basic and something Cals and Arms should have in common.

    Ok, can you explain in what context it would ever be okay to say that faith has nothing to do with your salvation, especially in light of the verses that have been presented to you again and again without a single rebuttal?

    As explained, those are not mutually exclusive.

    Why, I affirm the need for both, while you appear to deny the need for one.

    How about we stick with the scripture: "We are saved by grace through faith." and "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand..."
     
    #41 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  2. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Or how about "Abraham believed and it was credited to him as righteousness."
     
    #42 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  3. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I've stuck to the Scriptures..."by grace are you saved..."

    Not by faith you are saved. Think about it.

    Some of us our getting this. I used to believe as you, but I don't believe my faith saved me. Grace is the part that does the saving.

    Note your own verse teaches we stand by Grace, not faith. That standing is Salvation, and it is clearly Grace that did it. We may have access to it by faith, but it is the Grace part that saved.

    I'd be grateful if you'd retract your comment, based upon taking my comment in an isolated, way out of context manner. I've explained my position thoroughly, it is not completely unbiblical as you accuse, it's just that you aren't understanding it yet.

    - Peace
     
    #43 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  4. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Dunno. Maybe do a study on it and figure out was he saved in chapter 12 by Grace, and perhaps distinguish it from 15:6 when he was justified faith, by God. Maybe these mean two different things?

    Believe me, I had millions of questions. Now I completely understand I was saved by Grace. It is the part that saves.

    - Peace
     
    #44 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  5. Gershom

    Gershom Active Member

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    You cannot divorce the two, brother.
     
    #45 Gershom, Jul 7, 2011
  6. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I understand that. I also understand it is the Grace part that does the saving.
     
    #46 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  7. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    P4T, you have allowed men to make you afraid of doing the very thing you must do to be saved. You must come to Jesus personally and trust him to be saved.

    Jn 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

    Is that difficult to understand? Did Jesus clearly imply you must come to him to have life?

    Would Jesus lie? Does he use misleading statements? Is he going to reject you for coming to him after he said you must come to him?

    It is true we are saved by grace, none of us merited it. But you must trust Jesus and come to him to receive his grace.
     
    #47 Winman, Jul 7, 2011
  8. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Uh...what???? :eek: :confused:

    Wherever you came up with this is beyond me. I couldn't care less what man thinks of me.

    Which men are you referring to here? Lot's of assuming is happening between your ears Winman.
     
    #48 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  9. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    It's actually grace applied through faith. Even Calvinists affirm this very basic doctrinal truth brother.
     
    #49 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  10. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    what do you leave out with those three dots? "through faith."

    That is the scripture. You can't leave out the faith.

    Before you said, "Faith has nothing to do with salvation"
    Now you say, "We may have access to it [grace] by faith."

    Which is it? I affirm your latter statement but take issue with the former one.

    If you would retract your unbiblical comment ("faith has nothing to do with salvation") then I'd be glad to reconsider.
     
    #50 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  11. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I'm simply showing you by doing this that it is the Grace part that saves.

    It's up to your Christianity whether or not you retract this statement.

    - Peace
     
    #51 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  12. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    Retract the statement that calls it unbiblical for someone to claim that faith has nothing to do with salvation? I don't think so. It would be unchristian to allow such a statement to go without correction. Even you acknowledge now that grace is "accessed through faith," so why don't you simply retract your unbiblical statement?
     
    #52 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  13. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    You know very well who I am speaking of, are you going to play childish games now?

    Have you ever noticed the action verbs in salvation verses?

    COME unto me
    LOOK unto me
    whosoever shall CALL upon the name of the Lord
    those that RECEIVED him
    ASK and ye shall receive
    if any man HEAR my voice, and OPEN the door
    and whosoever WILL, let him TAKE of the water of life freely
    whosoever DRINKETH of the water that I give him shall never thirst
    him that COMETH to me I will in no wise cast out
    thou wouldest have ASKED of him, and he would have given thee living water

    If you are waiting for God to zap you from heaven, you are going to be disappointed. You must SUBMIT to Jesus, you must come to him, look to him, ask of him...

    Jesus knows doctrine, he is not going to reject any man for doing exactly what he commanded men to do to be saved.

    These actions are not what saves you, they are simply evidence of your faith and submission. If you do not really believe Jesus's words you will not come, you will not call, you will not ask, you will not open the door...
     
    #53 Winman, Jul 7, 2011
  14. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Nope. I have no idea who you are referring to. So, I only quote the part I am interested in.

    Enlighten me to whom you speak that I fear.

    No need to start your personal attacks here. Simmer down and tell me who you think I am in fear of, this "fear of man" accusation you lay on me.

    Fess up.
     
    #54 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  15. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I'll pass on retracting that I believe faith does not save us. In addition, my comments are taken out of context by you and I've since thoroughly explained that Grace saves, not faith.

    No retraction coming from me.

    - Peace
     
    #55 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  16. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    But you said faith has NOTHING to do with your salvation. How can that be when salvation requires faith?

    So you still affirm that faith has nothing to do with salvation???:confused:
     
    #56 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Anyone who tells you that if you obey Jesus's many commands to come to him, call on him, ask of him, look unto him, open the door to him, take of him, receive of him...

    Anyone who teaches you that obeying the commands of Jesus is SAVING YOURSELF.
     
    #57 Winman, Jul 7, 2011
  18. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    Well, you brought that into this, not me.

    No one ever taught me what you're saying. You completely miss me with your statements, and are only assuming, and this has nothing to do with the OP.

    Who is it I fear Winman?
     
    #58 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  19. preacher4truth

    preacher4truth Active Member

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    I know it's hard to explain. Simply accept that it is the Grace part that saves.
     
    #59 preacher4truth, Jul 7, 2011
  20. Skandelon

    Skandelon <b>Moderator</b>

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    So was Jesus mistaken when he said, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace." ???

    Or were the apostles wrong when the people asked, "How can we be saved?" and they replied saying, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household." ???

    Should they both have said, "Grace as saved you, go in peace," and "Grace will save you, you and your household." ???
     
    #60 Skandelon, Jul 7, 2011
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