America in Bible Prophecy

Which is why I posted this reference to the Words of Christ and of Paul on "why the Bible message on the end of days matters to the saints" regarding the end of time.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1469412&postcount=10

in Christ,

Bob

 

In Rev 19 the much predicted 2nd coming event is seen.

In Rev 20 the much predicted Great White throne jugment and lake of fire is seen.

In Rev 21 the much predicted New Heavens and New earth is detailed in chapter-length detail.

In Rev 14 - the end of the world - the reaping of the saints, the judgment of the wicked is detailed.

In Matt 24 another entire chapter dedicated to the future events culminating in the 2nd coming with warning after warning by Christ not to be deceived. He includes the warning that just as we know to read the signs of nature pointing toward spring - so we are to know the signs of the time pointing to the coming of Christ "know that it is at the door".

Hence the book of Revelation.

Interesting.

Are we to simply ignore the fact that the Lake of Fire (a term only used in the book of revelation) is a future event with a chapter length discussion in Revelation 20.

That would also go for the 2nd coming in Rev 19, a chapter length discussion of another future event

The 7 last plagues in Rev 16. - another chapter length discussion of a future event.

The New Earth that follows the millennium in Chapter 21

An interesting speculation. But the details in the book etself do not support the guess above.

The Great White Throne Judgment, of Rev 20, the 2nd Coming of Rev 19, the 7 last plagues of Rev 16 the new earth of Rev 21 -- are pretty clear as it turns out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

An interesting idea. Where is the evidence in exegesis for your assumption?

in Christ,

Bob

 

Another point in Marcia's favor -- I am one who does not agree with some of LaHaye's ideas -- but that does not mean I can toss out the book of Revelation or toss out Matt 24 or Toss out 2Thess 2 or Toss out 1Cor 15 or toss out 2Peter3, or 1Thess 5, or toss out 1 Peter 1 where Peter tells us to "Fix our hope Completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (and many other texts not listed here as well).

The warning of Christ in Matt 24 is "let no one deceive you". And the protection against that deception is given in the end-times truth and warnings contained in Matt 24. We ignore chapters like Matt 24, and 2Thess2 and the entire book of Revelation and the book of Daniel and... at our own peril.

God's Word cannot simply be sliced and diced in that manner without removing the protection that God has given to the saints against the 2Thess 2 end time deception where God Himself "turns them over" so that "they might believe a lie" for not having a "love of the truth".

To Love the truth - is to accept (not reject) what has been given and to continually desire more (understanding).

in Christ,

Bob

 

Marcia makes a good point in that we are not seeing "too much discussion" of Revelation so far -- we are seeing instant resistance to any discussion of it as if the book is some kind of mistake.

Those who recast this entire thing into "I don't want to talk about the rapture" are missing the boat entirely. I don't believe in the secret rapture at all (SDA are post-trib pre-mill) - but I can see that the NT statements on end times are massively important.

in Christ,

Bob

 

It is instructive that when addressing the subject of "signs of the end" you do not go to the actual Gospel chapter where the question is asked by Christ's followers regarding "signs of the end" (Matt 24) -- rather you have diverted instead to another topic -- bait-and-switch style??

The topic you have selected is the one where the Jews after seeing miracles from Christ in feeding the 5,000 -- ask him to show them a sign to prove he is the Messiah.

In Luke 16 Christ gives a parable with the point that if they would not believe the Word of God as written by Moses (regarding the Messiah in this case) they would not believe though one was risen from the Dead (Which Christ soon would be).

If today a few Christians want to toss out the NT Bible writer's words of warning regarding the end times -- they too will find that to be an unprofitable solution.

in Christ,

Bob

 

Indeed - your preference seems to be to differ.

That is fine -- you have free will in that regard.

My preference is to deal with the details in the text itself.

To each his own. :godisgood:

in Christ,

Bob

 

A few details that might be of interest.

1. Daniel 7 goes all the way through to the time of the end when all persecution of the saints ends - and the Kindgom of God is brought to earth.

Daniel 12:1-3 deals with the resurrection of the saints.

2. I have shown the 7 last plagues, the 2nd coming (Rev 19) the Millennium Rev 20, The Great White throne Judgment Rev 20, The New Earth Rev 21 -- to all be mentioned in the book of Revelation at "chapter length" on each subject.

3. I have shown that in Matt 24 when the disciples ask Christ for the "signs of his coming" His answer was not "no sign shall be given".

4. In Matt 24 some signs that did not occur in "every age" include - a tribulation "such as has never occurred in all of history".

It also includes signature events like the historic "Dark Day" and the Historic falling of the Stars that occurred in the 1830's.

In Rev 6 those events are compbined with a reference to a great earthquake (Lisbon Earthquake in 1798 on all saints day -- magnitude estimated to be 9 on what we now have as the Richter scale)

So it cannot be argued that all of the signs were available in every age.

(No radios - no TVs back then )

in Christ,

Bob

 

A few details that might be of interest

1. Daniel 7 goes all the way through to the time of the end when all persecution of the saints ends - and the Kindgom of God is brought to earth.

Not nearly enough detail in Daniel 7 being accounted for by that sweeping claim above.

notice.

1. The four kingdoms (Lion, Leopard, Bear, Beast) are four empires - (just as they were in Daniel 2) staring with Babylon and ending with Rome.

2. The persecution of the saints takes place until the judgment wipes out all who persecute and the saints inherit the earth without opposition.

The saints do not receive the kingdom until Christ receives it -- and that does not happen until Christ goes before the Ancient of Days as in the Daniel 7 text.

Therefore when Jesus was on earth He said "My kindom is NOT of this world"

Paul says in 1Cor 15 that once all oppositoin is abolished and subdued unto Christ -- then the end comes and at that still-future point even death itself is overcome.

The saints have not yet inherited the earth - hence in Matt 5 the promise was still future that the "saints would inherit the earth".

The New Earth does not show up until Rev 21 -- after the Millennium and the Great White Throne judgment.



in Christ,

Bob

 

War is waged against the saints until judgment is passed in favor of the saints AND the saints take possession of the promised inheritence.

John points to the same persecution of the saints for time, times and half-a-time, 42 months, 1260 prophetic days (years) in Rev 11, 12 and 13.

During the dark ages - the fires of persectuion were "wearing down the saints" -- it is way too late in the day to suppose that the dark-ages persecution is a non-event, as we all know.

thus the point is repeated - that the saints do not get their inheritance until judgment is passed, until all persecution of saints is ended.

And this also tells us why persecution has continued for as long as it has.

Christ said "in this world your have trouble - take courage I have overcome the world".

In Matt 18 Christ said that in the future some would kill the saints supposing that in so doing - they were doing God a service.

Christ said to "consider it all joy" when you are persecuted for "so did they persecute the prophets who were before you."


All NT authors predict future persecution of the saints.