Americans Believe Religion is Losing Clout

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Crabtownboy, Dec 24, 2008.

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  1. Crabtownboy

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    http://www.gallup.com/poll/113533/Americans-Believe-Religion-Losing-Clout.aspx

    Not good news.
     
  2. carpro

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    Liberal Christians lead the way.

    They exhibit little faith and even less action in actually living and voting their supposed Christian values.
     
  3. billwald

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    God gave Christians 500 years to evangelize North America and we blew it. The next center of Christianity will probably be in the south half of the globe.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    I disagree. Religion is spreading like wild fire. Muslims are gaining ground, Mormons are spreading like wild fire etc. But the gospel is being misrepresented and watered down by those who think the Bible is just a book and the history it reveals is just stories. It is being watered down by those who are under the allusion that it as a social gospel rather than a plan of redemption. This neo-gospel that suggests all you have to do is just follow Jesus with no view of the sin of man, the wrath of God, and the grace of the cross. The neo-evangelical holds to a neo-gospel that is utilitarian in nature having been grounded in humanism. In this neo-gospel God is nothing more than a means to an end rather than being the end itself. In the minds of the liberal or neo-evangelical God simply exists to make man happy. The neo-evangelical sees God as a reformer with social justice as His primary concern. Rather than lifting up Christ they lift up the needs of man as if this is the goal everyone should be working for. When we fail to hold God's glory up as the goal the gospel is gone. Therefore there is no Holy Ghost power in what is being presented. Only an appeal to emotion. That loses godly clout every time.
     
  5. StefanM

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    Revmitchell,

    Very well said.
     
  6. LeBuick

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    I think you were doing good until here...

    Then in your attempt at personal attacks you say something this off the mark. Just to "make man happy". Is meeting the needs of a starving man making him happy or is that our Christian duty. These are the Words of Jesus not mine.

    Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.


    See the verses I posted above, lifting the needs of man is one important way we glorify Christ and make the Gospel alive in the lives of non-believers. Like the story of the Good Samaritan, too many Christians are trying to glorify God in self-rewarding ways or by exclaiming I haven't sinned or I took the Godly stance but forget the true essence of Loving our Fellowman.

    Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
    10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

    Man is redeemed for a cause and that cause is not limited to siting in the Church and worship. We are still called to minister to the needs of the needy and to go about doing good.

    Eph 6:7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men:
    8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.

    So I say you got the last statement backwards, when one is filled with the Holy Ghost he can't help but going about doing good. Good works is God doing His Work through the believer.

    Ac 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

    Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
     
  7. Revmitchell

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    Man was not redeemed for a cause. Man was redeemed so that God would be glorified. Any service we do is not about serving up justice to man. And the gospel has nothing to do with the justice of man but the justice of God alone.
     
  8. LeBuick

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    Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
    8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
    9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
    10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
     
  9. Revmitchell

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    The good works is to live a life that replicates God. Holy living that shows we are His. This is for the glorification of God not the social justice of man.
     
  10. LeBuick

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    Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
    45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
    46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    You can post it over and over it will always mean the same thing. And it has nothing to do with the justice of man. Those who support this social gospel which is marxism wrapped up in christian clothing as Rick Warren says, are willing to promote catering to mans needs at the expense of unborn children and the story of redemption. Just how is God being glorified when we support the lost (government) gaining control of feeding the poor? Where is God getting the glory in that? I have news for you. Conservatives who focus on the glory of God as the end of all things do more for the hungry, poor and addicted than any group of liberals anywhere. All the while liberal Christian's are willing to sacrifice the unborn child for the convenience of the woman's, they will allow millions of unborn children be slaughtered to give way for this ungodly social gospel by simply voting for a man who doesn't want his girls to be punished with a baby if they were to make a mistake.
     
    #11 Revmitchell, Dec 24, 2008
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  12. Samuel Owen

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    I beg to differ, religion is not loosing its clout, but Christianity certainly is. Because of much misdirection, and looking to men instead of God to solve its problems.

    Would you like to read something Billy Graham said, when Billy was free to speak his mind, and not controlled by his organization.


    From World Aflame 1965, By Billy Graham.

    Is the Church to turn its preaching, and teaching over to an all out fight against Communism?. This is not the Churches mission or task.

    In the time of Christ and the early church, the great peril of Christianity was Imperial Rome, and the succeeding treats of the Goths, and the Mongols. But this did not mean that the Church, was to marshal all its forces to fight these enemies. It had a distinctive mission to the World that was neither National, Ideological, nor Political.

    It was to bear witness to Jesus Christ, this witness was not to employ any kind of State Power, or to receive any measure of State Support. It was not to take the sword and employ Force, it was to preach the transforming Gospel of the Grace of God. And to use such means of social relief, as would minister to the present needs of man. As Christians we are to live, and minister under all forms of Government, and to Die for our Faith if necessary!.

    See: Ecclesiastes 3:16-17 and 5:8


    It seems the Christian Church has lost sight of these things, doesn't it. ??
     
    #12 Samuel Owen, Dec 24, 2008
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  13. gb93433

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    That same sort of thing happened when Jesus rose from the dead. As long as man has been on this earth and continues to exist the same thing will happen.

    My question would be is; "How many of those who were evangelized and received Christ were discipled?"

    Something cannot spread in a vacuum. It has to have a source. Mormons wil tell you that most of those who join theri churches are from the SBC and RCC.
     
  14. Revmitchell

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    Most? I doubt it. Anyway what is your point? Is this another anti-SBC post?
     
  15. LeBuick

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    What? You got me here, Jesus is telling us the criteria he expects of those who will stand to his right. Whose justice is this if it isn't man's?

    Again Rev, you are making unsubstantiated accusations. If this were me, Bible Boy would be demanding an apology. I don't believe anyone who advocates what you call the "social gospel" is unconcerned about the unborn, we just read the whole Bible and found God cares for more than what you call murder. There are many atrocities taking place among men and I find no scriptural support where God wants us to singularly advocate one and not all...

    Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
    15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

    17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    The same as the Glory God would receive if the Government made abortion illegal. For God to be glorified in the cause of abortion the Church/Holy Spirit will need to penetrate the hearts of man and make them not want an abortion even if the government called it legal? Otherwise, and the approach being used would serve to glorify the proponents by believing they won a victory on behalf of God. God doesn't need a secular law to be glorified, He is glorified men do good and right in spite of the secular law.

    I don't follow your logic here, can you explain? If you're saying those who have more can do more then I guess I'd have to agree. However, when I look at the programs the liberals in Hollywood and the liberal athletes put together for causes vs what you see rich business executives doing for the needy, I don't see your position supported with actions. When you consider the liberal athletes and Hollywood being told by a presidential candidate "I will raise your taxes to redistribute the wealth" and they supported him with their votes, again, I don't see your position supported with actions.

    You again are focusing on one issue, one atrocity that was presented in this last election. You chose to stand where you stood for the reasons in your heart. I and everyone who voted in the election did the same. You shouldn't wear self righteousness as if to say your heart and your actions are the only ones that can be right, approved by and capable of glorifying God.

    We Rev are accountable to God and will have to give an account for our actions to Him and not each other. Like you, I have no worries I will receive a good report.

    Ro 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
    13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
     
  16. gb93433

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    Most? I know you are wrong. I am surprised you do not know that fact. Why did you not label it as an anti-RCC post? Perhaps you should contact some SBC folks at www.hismin.com who are former Mormons to verify what I wrote to verify if I told you facts or not. By doubting what I told you then you are also doubting what those SBC workers said at a conference and to me personally. The lady also said that if people knew their Bible then they would not be joing cults. She was a translator in the Mormon Church for 14 years and he wasd a sixth generation Mormon.

    My Bible says, "Therefore let us draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. "

    Are you telling us that you lack confidence to face the facts?
     
  17. Revmitchell

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    What I am telling you is you are anti-SBC and therefore not credible. Add to that you have no way of knowing what all the people who join the mormons are thinking. However, scripture addresses this:


    1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
     
    #17 Revmitchell, Dec 25, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 25, 2008
  18. LeBuick

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    Lk 11:23 He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth.
     
  19. gb93433

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    You never made one comment about being anti-RCC? Why?

    Of course I do not know that personally anymore than you know if the SBC is telling you the truth in everything. I did not do the counting, but I do trust former leaders from that church who have made the statement publicly and personally.

    I wrote what I believe is a true statement that I have heard by more than a few people and you said you doubted, then you said I had no credibility because I am anti-SBC.

    Your same argument is much the same argument that has been heard from the RCC about the pedophiles and homosexuals in their church. Even people in the RCC trusted their leaders while the pedophilia and homesexuality was going on. Despite the report done by the RCC in the early 20th century concerning homosexuality in the RCC the leaders continued to attempt to cover up the problem rather than address it directly. Now God is humbling them because they did not humble themselves.

    The website of the people I gave you work in the SBC. If you had done your homework you would know them from "The Mormon Puzzle." Did you ever write them and ask them for the facts as they know them?
     
  20. Revmitchell

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    I could care less about the RCC and they are irrelevant. What does that mean "if the SBC is telling me the truth"? About what? You seem to lack knowledge about the SBC you say you pastored in. The SBC is not a hierarchy like the RCC. Your comparison is apples and refrigerators. And this thread seems to be veering off topic.
     
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