An Inclusivist Church

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Michael Wrenn, Feb 17, 2012.

  1. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Despite my running battles with The Biblicist and others over Calvinism, I would not wish to exclude those who believe this way from my church. As I have stated, my mom believes in OSAS. Also, even though I do not hold to the Pentecostal/Charismatic interpretation of baptism in the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues, I would not want to exclude a person who believes this from my church. My oldest sister, though raised a Baptist, is now a Pentecostal.

    I am passionate about my beliefs in these areas, and I want to be a part of a local church that accepts the way I believe, but I would also wish that the church accepted the way my mom and sister believe, also.

    I only know of one denomination that contains such a wide divergence of belief -- from Arminian/Wesleyan, Calvinist, Lutheran-type beliefs, Charismatic, Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, etc, and that would be the Anglican Communion. The Anglican Communion also has Celtic influence.

    That might be where I belong, except for this: I can't abide the Episcopal Church; they are not pro-life, and they welcome practicing homosexuals into the ministry. These are just two of the reasons I couldn't belong there. I did join TEC years ago but didn't remain. And the only conservative Anglican church, an AMiA church, is an hour's drive from me, in Oxford. I would have a problem with infant baptism, but that wouldn't keep me out of the church.

    Anyway, my question is: Could you be a part of a church that accepted your beliefs but that also accepted the beliefs of others which might be diametrically opposed to yours?

    You see, I could be a member of a church (including Baptist) that allowed OSAS but that also allowed the belief that one can lose salvation.

    I'd like to hear opinions on this; whether you could be a member of such an inclusivist church -- and by inclusivist I don't mean acceptance of abortion or homosexuality.
     
  2. The Biblicist

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    Sure, anyone could be a member of such a church. All you have to do is rip out certain parts of the New Testament and your good to go.

    You would have to rip out such texts as 1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thes. 3:6; Rom. 16:17-18; Revelation 2-3; Gal. 1:8-9; 2 Cor. 11:4-5; etc.
     
  3. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    I wonder how you're going to be able to stand being in heaven with those who disagree with you -- and that will include a LOT of people!

    Maybe God will give you your own little Calvinist corner and a few Calvinist playmates! :laugh:

    If your mother or wife different greatly with you on a doctrine, would you want them in the same church as you?

    BTW, I would welcome you in my church, even though we probably wouldn't be friends. :)
     
    #3 Michael Wrenn, Feb 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2012
  4. DaChaser1

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    my church, Stony Creek Church of Utica, check out our web site, has senior pastor who is evangelical non cal, elders cal, membership both sides of that question, and have some holding to gifts operating today/others saying all ceased!
     
  5. The Biblicist

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    As you fully know there is perfect unity in heaven but that is not true on earth. The Bible is very clear about ecclesiastial separation here and now. Your theology has no use for such texts as 2 Thes. 3:6

    If your mother was a lost person would your church invite her to be a member and partake of the ordinances? If not, does that mean you would llove her less?? Your analogies are rediculous!

    Congregational membership is based upon certain essential areas of unity (Eph. 4:3-15) that does not include blood relationship.

    What you are promoting is exactly what gave rise to Roman Catholicism and its inclusiveness of ancient pagainism.
     
  6. convicted1

    convicted1
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    Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?

    A church, to be able to work properly, needs to be in harmony, IMHO.
     
  7. glfredrick

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    Let's see...

    How can we have a church where nothing at all matters except that we all feel loved and there are no requirements?

    How about the Unitarian Universalists? Of couse, their concept of salvation has nothing at all to do with the bloody cross of Christ, but all that stuff is such a downer anyway...

    You are decidedly leaning in that direction anyway, so you may as well make the jump.
     
  8. DaChaser1

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    We are, in that we all agree on the core essentials, just agree to lovingly disagree on secondary aspects as in timing of rapture, second coming, if gifts for today or ceased etc
    Some hold to DoG, others not, but NONE hold to loss of salvation!
     
  9. Michael Wrenn

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    Talk about ridiculous analogies, yours is ridiculous and convoluted!

    I surely do get tired of you falsely characterizing my beliefs. Nothing I have said would encourage incorporating paganism.

    I think your views are so narrow that you could only partake of the Lord's Supper with yourself. :laugh:
     
  10. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    Could you include a link to your website?
     
  11. The Biblicist

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    Where does the Bible say that all false doctrine originates from (1 Tim. 4:1)? Where does paganist doctrines originate from? Same identical source.

    What alternatives does the Apostle John give in 1 John 4:6? Is there a third?
     
  12. glfredrick

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    That really isn't all that humerous, your use of the laughing icon aside.

    You come here and start asking REALLY heterodox questions then are offended when orthodox answers are given. I'm fairly sure that you do not realize just how far off the scale you are in regards to your doctrine, but it shows with every post you make and further conversations seem only to convince most of us that you are in deeper than we even wish to give credit for. It is against board rules to question the salvation of another here, but in all honesty, I can admit that I often wonder in your case. Note that I am not saying that you are not a believer, but rather that your "fruits" are seemingly not in keeping with a biblical salvation.
     
  13. convicted1

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    I am glad that your church can function is this manner, I really do. But, churches are composed of humans, and as humans, some want their way all the time. Has your church ever had a major fallout/split in regards to doctrine? I pray the answer is "no".
     
  14. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    What is "orthodox" and "heterodox" depends on who is using the terms. I asked if people who believe differently should be able to belong to the same church, and it causes a post such as yours.

    I see some here whom I also would consider that their "fruits" are not in keeping with a biblical salvation. Of course my criteria for judging such is different from yours. I would judge such based on whether or not one is following the teachings of Jesus, which includes not only doctrine but more importantly the fruits of the spirit, chief of which is love. I must say that I see more "pharisaism" than love in some people here.

    When we do get to heaven, I wonder how some will answer to how they treated their brethren here who disagreed with them.
     
  15. glfredrick

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    Of course we will discover that we all had some issues incorrect when we gain eternity. IF we gain eternity, that is.

    Paul argues that we currently see through a mirror dimly (or a glass darkly, same difference), in other words we don't see things as clearly as we ought and neither do we see US as clearly as we ought. God, however, does see clearly and sees US clearly as well. There is no confusion with God and "all roads" DO NOT lead to His eternity and security. He tells us that. He makes it very clear that SOME ROADS are roads to destruction, and you have been listing some of those wayward roads as part of your response, hence our concern over your general direction.

    It is not JUST that we are promulgating our own position, but rather that many of us agree on our own positions because they are the positions that God outlines in the Word. That you have difficulty in seeing that likely stems from your other insistence that the Word of God is not really the Word of God, but rather a book with some of God's words within it. You must then pick and choose -- draw a line, if you will, between the words that are purely human and the words that are God's -- and sometimes you do your drawing or choosing in a way that harms your ability to remain orthodox in your doctrines.

    The road to salvation is "narrow" not "razor thin" nor "wide" but narrow. A narrow path leaves room for a bit of left and right side-stepping, but not much, and that side-stepping is narrowly defined as orthodoxy. The way to destruction is called the "wide road." You are on a 16-lane freeway and skipping lanes at will, thus defying the very word that you also need to use to have any salvific knowledge of God and Christ.

    You ask, who decides? The answer is God. He gave us a "cheat sheet" for the exam. It is called the Bible. It details what it is that He expects and what it is that He gives. Reading it is good. There is no penalty on the test for having the crib sheet in hand...
     
  16. Michael Wrenn

    Michael Wrenn
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    If that is what you believe about me, then I have no further need nor desire to converse with you. God and I are okay; His is the only affirmation I need.
     
  17. The Biblicist

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    When two people disagree concerning the very heart of the gospel, which is justification by faith, in regard to works then what do you expect for your opponent to say but that you are rejecting the very gospel necessary to be saved. You are actually saying the same thing to him and all who disagree with you. There is no middle ground between grace and works as they are always placed in direct contrast with each other with no third option (Rom. 11:6; Eph. 2:8-9; Rom. 3:27-28) when it comes to initial salvaiton "saved." This is the very issue Paul declares another person is "accursed" if they teach justification by works (Gal. 1:8-9; 3:10-12).
     
  18. DaChaser1

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  19. DaChaser1

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    So far, nothing major has happened, at least not what I was aware of!

    Think what helps us is that a majority of us, including the pastor, came out from RCC circles!

    I came out from Pentacostal church, so have wide variety of backgrounds in plan!!
     
  20. convicted1

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    It's good to know that a "mixed bag"(no offfense intended) of doctrines can come together in harmony. Hallelujah.....
     

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