And he who Endures

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Van, Sep 13, 2015.

  1. Van

    Van
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    In answer to questions concerning the second coming of Christ, Jesus provided what is termed, “The Olivet Discourse” in Matthew Chapters 24 and 25. These passages are understood in radically different ways depending if you look through the prism of Dispensationalism or Amillennism.

    Both groups agree that Matthew 24:1-2 is a prophecy of Jesus concerning the destruction of the Temple which occurs about 40 years later in 70 A.D.

    However in verse 3 (Matthew 24:3) they ask Jesus three questions that actually provide the correct prism of understanding for the text: When will these “things” be, what will be the sign of your coming, and what will be the sign of the end of the age.

    First, what are the “things” being referred to in verse 3? The most inclusive view accepts this first question as referring to the destruction of the Temple, the Second Coming and the End of the Age.

    The sign of the second coming, presented by Jesus in Matthew 23:39, quoting Zech. 12:10, must be understood to be shrouded in falsehoods, i.e. the false claims of false Messiahs. Others will say they are the Messiah, but these claims will be false and we must see that no one misleads us.

    Next a sign of His second coming will be wars and rumors of wars. Again, this provides little help because we have had this sign for 2000 years.

    Tribulation will be a sign, but again, fallen mankind has been in tribulation, suffering earthquakes, famines and wars among nations for 2000 years. Jesus tells us these conditions are merely the preconditions, existing during the age, and therefore not a definitive sign of the second coming or the end of the age. Thus, the destruction of Temple is part of the birth pangs and not a sign of the second coming.

    In verse 9 (Matthew 24:9) Jesus starts talking specifically about the end of the age and His second coming. The “you” refers not to the individuals living 2000 years ago, but to those living at the end of the age. So the first sign of the end of the age is that Christians will be hated by all nations. So as we rightly toil to sustain acceptance of Christian beliefs to facilitate the spread of the gospel of Christ, we must know that when the secularists and those of other faiths become intolerant, this is according to the words of Jesus.

    Another sign will be those professing to be Christians will turn away, joining those in the majority and in power. These false Christians will rat on one another, eroding the trust that is essential of the proper functioning of the body of Christ. Our local assemblies will no longer be safe havens.

    The end of the age will be marked by the rise of many false teachers, folks who say they proclaim the word of God but lead folks astray.

    And the second to the last sign, because we see lawlessness within the body of Christ, our love and commitment to our brothers and sisters in Christ will grow cold, we will not boldly proclaim what is right and acceptable to God to edify others, rather we will hold on to those close to us silently, as we cross to the other side of the street.

    I lump verse 14 (Matthew 24:14) in with the signs that are birth pangs, something that will occurring during the age and not being as specific as those above as an earmark for the end of the age and the return of Christ.

    Turning now to Matthew 24:12-13, the one who endures with his or her love of Christ and love of the least of His, shall be saved.

    How is the temperature in your local assembly? Is it growing cold, are people following after men and not after Christ? Are the fault-finders in ascendance? Are we building up or tearing down? Will your love of Christ endure when the cost is your safety and security?
     
  2. agedman

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    Good rendering, Van.

    Personally, I do view verse 9 through 14 as a brief of the sequence yet to come beginning with the "Then" which I assume is a bit of a departure from your thinking. The "then" is significant because it separates the two periods of time from the past 2000 years to the "then."

    Those enduring through to the end of the time referred to as "tribulation" will be saved (or martyred). The Gospel "preached to every nation" can be considered the Millennium and then the "end will come." Meaning this world will cease to exist.

    What starts the whole process that has been going on for 2000 years is found in verse 15. "Therefore when you see the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand),..."

    There will be those who disagree with me, but then I am not all knowing. :)
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    The Greek word (hypomeno) translated endure, presents the idea of standing steady or standing firm while under a load or strain. Jesus taught that as the end of the age approaches, when the cost for our faith and service goes up, some professing Christians will exemplify the second soil of Matthew 13, and fall away.

    The lady who went to jail rather than violate her trust in the Bible exemplifies the increasing cost of Christian faith and practice.
     
  4. agedman

    agedman
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    When people are disheartened or discouraged, the natural tendency is to hang the head over and look down with slumped shoulders.

    "Look up! Your redemption draws nigh."

    The confidence of the Psalmist rings in the words:
    I will lift up my eyes to the mountains;
    From where shall my help come?
    My help comes from the Lord,
    Who made heaven and earth.
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    Because lawlessness will multiply, the love of many will grow cold. He who has an ear...
     
  6. JamesL

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    Van,
    When you say professing Christians will turn away, then follow that by calling them false believers....

    Where do you get the notion that it's false believers who turn away?

    And when you quote Jesus - "He who endures to the end will be saved"

    What do you mean?
    What kind of "saved" is this?
    Saved how?
    Endures to what end?
    Endures in what way?
     
  7. JamesL

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    Oh, btw.
    That nut job in Kentucky is a hypocrite, not a saintly martyr.

    She wants to get paid from a worldly government, yet refuse to comply with their worldly standards. If she didn't like the new job requirements, she needed to quit and look for a new job. It's really that simple.
     
  8. Van

    Van
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    1) Yes, I said professing Christians who turn away from their Christianity were false Christians. Like those who said, "Lord, Lord" but Jesus said "I never knew you."

    2) The visible church is made up of wheat and tares, both "believing they are saved" yet the tares are not saved. That is why Paul taught that we are to routinely examine ourselves to see if we are of the faith. Easy Believism is a mistaken view of Christianity.

    3) People who endure hold fast to their faith and love of Christ (and their love of the least of His) till the end of their lives or till Christ returns.

    4) The bible speaks of salvation in past, present, and future ways, and when speaking of a born anew believers "future" salvation is referring to avoiding the wrath of God in the afterlife.

    5) The intolerance of biblical faith adds to the cost of our belief in our daily lives. Hobby Lobby, Cake Bakers, Health Care Providers, the left is waging war on Christianity, and an increasing number of voters agree with the left.
     
    #8 Van, Sep 19, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 19, 2015
  9. Grasshopper

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    In Mark's version, there is no separation:

    1And as he came out of the temple, one of his disciples said to him, “Look, Teacher, what wonderful stones and what wonderful buildings!” 2And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? There will not be left here one stone upon another that will not be thrown down.”
    3And as he sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, 4“Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are about to be accomplished?”
     
  10. Van

    Van
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    The Greek word (hypomeno) translated endure, presents the idea of standing steady or standing firm while under a load or strain. Jesus taught that as the end of the age approaches, when the cost for our faith and service goes up, some professing Christians will exemplify the second soil of Matthew 13, and fall away.

    So as we rightly toil to sustain acceptance of Christian beliefs to facilitate the spread of the gospel of Christ, we must know that when the secularists and those of other faiths become intolerant, this is according to the words of Jesus.

    The intolerance of biblical faith adds to the cost of our belief in our daily lives. Hobby Lobby, Cake Bakers, Health Care Providers, the left is waging war on Christianity, and an increasing number of voters agree with the left.
     
  11. Van

    Van
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    I guess we must sadly add Christians in classrooms to those who have paid dearly for professing their faith.
     
  12. heisrisen

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    True Christians will endure man's persecution. Those who are false converts will fall away. And yes these signs have been going on, but never in this intensity and frequency.
     
  13. BrandonA

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    The interesting thing about Biblical eschatology is that it includes a lot of "markers" that could honestly apply to any age. Christians being hated will be a sign of the end times, but Jesus also said that Christians will pretty much just be universally hated throughout all of time, because we bear a philosophy that convicts the world of its sin.

    "Wars and rumors of wars"...that's true as well, but many times have come and gone that contained both wars and rumors of them. We've had two global wars already. They came and went without any observable spiritual occurrences. The moon turning red will also be a thing at a certain point in the final days. But red moons also happen all the time; they're just lunar eclipses.

    A couple things that stand out as distinctly unique markers of the end times: the Bible describes the "whole world" watching and celebrating the death of the two witnesses at the hands of the Antichrist. That one seems particularly apt to our age of global media. Additionally, 1 Thess. 5:3 says destruction will come on those who are in the middle of "peace and safety". It seems to imply that the coming of Christ will be sudden, unexpected, occurring at a moment of relative stability.

    That's why the war in Syria might not necessarily signal the imminence of the Rapture. It's more likely that peace would do so.
     

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