And we let them do it again

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Jailminister, May 17, 2004.

  1. Jailminister

    Jailminister
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    Another battle won by the devil. Thank God he loses in the end.

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    Posted on Fri, May. 14, 2004

    Ten Commandments hauled away from city hall
    BY JOHN MYERS
    NEWS TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

    A block of granite that withstood 47 years of nature's elements couldn't stand up to federal judge's order.

    Early Friday the Ten Commandments monument was removed from the front lawn of Duluth's City Hall after months of legal and political wrangling that has divided the city.

    The removal was heralded as a victory for supporters of the separation of church and state, of the principle that government can neither favor nor tred on any one faith.

    But supporters of the monument, especially evangelical Christians, said the empty granite base where the monument stood is a sign of the "moral decay of our country."

    The monument was ordered removed after an agreement between the American Civil Liberties Union of Minnesota and the city of Duluth that was approved by Federal District Court Judge James Rosenbaum late Thursday. The ACLU had filed suit on behalf of several Duluth residents demanding the monument be removed because it violated the Constitutional separation of church and state.

    City workers, assisted by employees of a private monument company, made quick work of the task at hand, first chipping away a thin line of mortar before attaching a heavy strap to the monument.

    A large crane plucked the 1,600-pound hunk of granite off its base and laid it gently in the back of a city truck. The entire operation took less than an hour and was completed before 8:30 a.m. with downtown workers watching as they drove to work.

    The seven-foot tall monument, which sat at the site since being donated to the city by the Fraternal Order of the Eagles in 1957, will be stored in a city storage garage.

     
  2. onestand

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    I know my thoughts will most likely not be recieved well on this topic but I am very happy they took the ten commandments statue away from the court steps.

    The ten commandments are meant to be hidden in our hearts and lived out daily. What I saw on the news was Christians clinging to this statue as if it were a god to them, I really believe it caused many to loose focus of why we are on this earth. I do understand to many it's a symbol of what we believe and the basis of Christianity as the foundational stone to this country, I see it as a hunk of stone. Why do we have to have a symbol posted on court steps? When I looked at news postings about this situation, the story of the Golden Calf in the bible came to mind and my thoughts were....Folks stop dancing around the calf, keep focused on the race set before you and continue to keep the vision of reaching people for Jesus in your hearts and minds.

    eh...that is my personal opinion on this.
     
  3. Baptist Believer

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    Amen!
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    It is another symptom of public policy in a post-Christian America.

    We can (and should) decry the de-Christianizing of our courts, laws, etc. We should not "throw up our hands" and say it is not important. It IS indicative of moral and spiritual bankruptcy.

    But our first work must be to proclaim the truth of the Gospel that the Holy Spirit might use to convert the heart.
     
  5. Johnv

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    I don't need the 10C's publicly displayed for them to be written in our hearts.

    Besides, when it comes to them, we Christians tend to be hypoctires anyway. We insist that they be allowed to be publicly displayed at the taxpayer's expense. In the very same breath, we say they're Old Covenant Law, which is no longer in force.

    Perhaps the problem with the nation's view on the Ten Commandments is the public display of our own fickle attitude towards them? I submit that it is entirely possible that we have become our own enemies.

    Sidenote:

    Looking at the pictures above, there are some interesting items concerning the aforementioned monument. First, looking at the language, they're written in KJV English. As such, do they not exclude Jewish, Muslim, Catholic and Orthodox faiths which do not use the KJV in referencing the 10c's? Second, note that the monument begins with "I am the Lord thy God", in bold letters, and then the first commandment follows with "you shall have no other gods before me". Is that not incorrectly defining the 10C's according the Protestant and Evangelical understanding? Third, since the monument emhasizes the words "I am the Lord thy God" separately, does that not make this monument one for the specific purpose of fostering a religious agenda? I don't want the government fostering a religious agenda, even if it happens to coincide with my own religious beliefs. Once they do that, it's no longer individual religious liberty.
     
  6. Johnv

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    BTW, the above story is incorrect.

    The monument was not "forced" to be removed. The city council voluntarily removed the statue. Ten local residents, plus the ACLU, filed a suit regarding the statue, but the Cuncil decided to settle the matter by removing the statue, which the will be selling to a private entity, which will display the monument on private property.
     
  7. massdak

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    johnv
    you always love to get your digs in on Christians, your quotes do not fool me >>>>
    true Christians know that God has control and will only allow what He is willing to allow, as far as evil is concerned. why do you try to sneak in a liberal message against Christians?
     
  8. Johnv

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    Oh, please, not the "L" word :rolleyes: . Recognizing our own shortcomings as a Christian community is not a "liberal" issue. It should be a concervative issue.

    Are you inferring I'm not a "true Christian"? If so, you've got some 'splaining to do.
     
  9. massdak

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    i will not get into this subject too deeply johnv but your post seems to infer, which does make me suspect.
     
  10. onestand

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    umm liberal message?? I must be missing something here. *scratches head*
     
  11. Johnv

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    :rolleyes:
     
  12. HankD

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    You're right.

    HankD
     
  13. onestand

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    Hank,

    yeah, it doesn't shock me but that's fine.
     
  14. Debby in Philly

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    It's not just a symptom of the de-christianizing of American society, it's a symptom of the de-WASPing of American society. Back in the good ol' days (the 50's), "average" Americans went to a Protestant church, lived in two-parent homes, were white, and were essentially what the sitcoms portrayed in terms of structure and values. I know, I grew up in one such American home. Having the Ten Commandments at the courthouse seemed "right and proper."

    I remember the fuss made about the fact that we had elected our first Catholic president. Then there was the Civil Rights movement (Which didn't affect me much, living in a northern city in which we'd all been getting along for the most part.) And then the rest of the 60s, and the banning of school prayer, and the hippie counterculture, and the war, and Roe v. Wade, etc. etc. And now there's a mosque in my community. And women who dress all covered up. And people who speak Arabic, and African French, and Vietnamese.

    America is now more pluralistic than ever. So why shouldn't they take down the Ten Commandments at the courthouse? Does it really surprise us? But visible symbols are powerful. And it cuts to the quick to see a beloved symbol being removed. But I think what we really mourn is the passing of those good ol' days, which for many of us include the way our faith was accepted and seen as the norm. I know I sometimes grow weary of it. Always being concerned that we don't offend, or that we are misunderstood. Always accommodating the person who is different from me, lest they feel "put out." It takes energy to keep up the defenses and the "game face."

    God give us the grace to keep going for Him in this new, unfamiliar, scary, pluralistic society. "This world is not my home, I'm just a passin' through."
     
  15. Johnv

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    Ah, yes. The days when mom and dad slept in separate beds, and none of the bathrooms had toilets :D . Don't get me wrong, one of the things I like doing is taking a tour of Universal Studios (I have an annual pass) and seeing the houses of the Beavers et al, all of which are still standing and still in use in production today. But I'm also reminded of my favorite show "I love lucy". That show was quite revolutionary for the simple fact that it starred a "foreigner", and it the mixed-race couple of Lucy and Ricky was quite contrary to societal norms.
     
  16. Jailminister

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    Well by reading some of the postings above, it is apparent that we have given up America to the leftist. They are destroying our once grat country and they have not fired one shot. GOD HAVE MERCY ON US, BECAUSE WE DO NOT DESERVE YOUR BLESSINGS.
     
  17. onestand

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    I don't agree, I've not given over to anyone, I'm just simply against fighting over issues of less potentence to the cause of Christ and for the more underlined missions Jesus set before us as a family of God.

    As patterns in history and present day show, the world is not becoming eager to allow Christian views/beliefs remain the foundation on how this country or the world functions. I, being a believer believe that after the Lord's return serious chaos will unleash itself through the anti christ and I believe the world is literally setting itself up for those future events and they don't even know it.

    That being said, I do not believe conditions on this earth are expected to become favorable in the believer's favor unless God himself places the favor over the situation.

    I feel it's a waste of time to fight with a government run system to allow things like a "religious" hunk of stone to remain on a court step, what does it prove? It's not like the presence of the stone will cause someone to realize their need for Jesus Christ in their life. In fact, I say take a sledge hammer to it, crumble it to tiny pieces, if it's worth anything, sell the pieces and take the money to put to use of the message of jesus to people who have never heard, or put the money to feeding the homeless or shelter...after all THOSE were the very things Jesus told us to do in the first place.
     
  18. Jailminister

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    It is not a matter of worshipping the stone. That is silly. It is for what the stone stands for. God gave them to us written in stone. Good enough for Him, good enough for me.
     
  19. LadyEagle

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    Amen! The stone is a symbol of what this country was founded upon, Judeo-Christian principles and laws.

    Typically, the liberals, atheists, tree worshippers, ACLU, socialists, and US Supreme Court all want the same thing - remove all semblence or reminder of the One True God from the public.

    I literally want to puke when I hear Baptists defend the ways of the ungodly and can only wonder if that's the message preached from the pulpit at the Baptist church they attend or if they happen to be snoring during the sermon.

    Even so, Come, Lord Jesus.
     
  20. superdave

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    For the record I am not and never was a WASP, I have allergies so I am a WASB

    I have no problem with the Ten Commandments being displayed in public, after all, visit Washington, the founding Fathers clearly had no problem with it, and anyone who says otherwise is ignoring some pretty obvious architechural detail. And they did not all agree on doctrine, but understood that Government not only was not to set up a state church, but also needed to stay out of the personal business of citizens, and the rights of States and municipalities to set up their own laws based on the demographics of their locale. That is something the Strong Federal Government has ignored for a long time. There is a specific reason that this country is called the United STATES of America.

    It is not simply a matter of defacating on the Judeo-Christian ethical foundation of the country, but ignoring historical truth.

    My real problem with it is not religious in nature but intellectual.
     

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