Andre Dawson is the sole 2010 HOF Inductee

Discussion in 'Sports' started by Andy T., Jan 6, 2010.

  1. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Wow. Blyleven misses by 5 votes. R. Alomar misses by about 10 votes. Larkin only got 51% - I thought he would be higher than that. Morris saw an uptick in his %, I think. Trammell continues to get ripped off at 22%. Raines only got 30% - he should be higher. Link to article:

    http://community.baseballhall.org/Page.aspx?pid=569
     
    #1 Andy T., Jan 6, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2010
  2. TomVols

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    David Segui got a HOF vote. That's it. I now call for mandatory drug testing among BBWAA voters

    Seriously.


    Now, back to the topic at hand. I'm a bit surprised at the vote. In his era, he's 4th in HR, 3rd in RBI (Great numbers) , 6th in H, 9th in R, (also very good) but 19th in SLG, 24th in SBs, 62nd in OPS, 93rd in BA, and 5th most outs. His short playoff career revealed a .186 ba, OBP of .237, and SLG of .237. Yet he hit .300 5 times and and missed a sixth by one point.

    Years ago, a friend referred to Dawson as the first of the ESPN candidates, the first guy who really entered into his prime when ESPN was in its heyday. I disagreed, citing others who came along.

    I've gone on record and shown the record why I think Blyleven is a HOFer. I won't repeat them here. It's telling who was just short; some who weren't had fairly similar numbers to Andre.

    I'm not going to burn Cooperstown down because he got in. He was a great player. One of the all-time greats? Well, you can make an argument that he wasn't, IMHO. But he did have some very good seasons. I just don't see how some get left out and others get in when both have similar numbers. But that's why I'm not a BBWAA voter...I use my head :laugh:

    By the way....DAVID SEGUI?
     
  3. ccrobinson

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    Do you know who else got a HOF vote? Pat Hentgen. Good grief.

    I don't remember where I came down on the question of should HOF voting be revamped, but, regardless of whether I'm changing my position or not, I think HOF voting should be revamped. I'm sure this isn't the first time that completely undeserving candidates get votes, but it's beyond ridiculous and high time that a change should be made.
     
    #3 ccrobinson, Jan 6, 2010
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  4. TomVols

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    I've said for years that HOF voting needs a makeover. I don't necessarily endorse the Bill James plan, but parts of it are good.

    Some of the biggest crocks are these morons who say they will not vote for someone on the first ballot year of eligbility, but will vote in subsequent years. Yeah, that'll show em.

    Mike Dodd of USA Today says he won't vote for Barry Larkin til year three of his candidacy and since he will vote for Barry, he will now have to vote for Alan Trammell. Good Lord. This is how we decide who the all time greats are?
     
    #4 TomVols, Jan 6, 2010
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  5. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Heard Bob Costas say something that I've thought all along - that is, for a primary DH player like Edgar Martinez, he better have clear cut offensive credentials for the Hall, and not just marginal numbers, since he contributed nothing defensively. Edgar's offensive numbers, while good (for the era), are not good enough for a primary DH. Couldn't agree more.
     
  6. TomVols

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    I'm curious, CCRob and Andy: do you agree with Dawson's selection?
     
  7. Andy T.

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    I guess, but I would put him in the 2nd tier of the Hall. He's more deserving than Jim Rice, for instance. And Tony Perez...:tongue3:
     
  8. TomVols

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    Very funny. Only you probably aren't kidding, and that's the sad part.

    Did you know he always wanted to play for the Twins? :laugh:

    I know there are worse selections, but no way he's the most qualified HOF candidate out there. No way. As Jimmy Hyams says, what made him a HOFer this year when he wasn't the years prior? Without one more hit, AB, R, RBI, etc., he got more worthy this year than in years past.

    Did you like Dodd's admission that Trams will have to gravy train off of Barry? :laugh:
     
  9. CoJoJax

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    It's hilarious how some of the voters aren't letting Alomar in b/c of that spitting incident. I mean, I agree -- it was a pretty stupid thing to do. But it's just funny how the writers are trying to "punish" him. One of the guys was on MLB Network and said he was just not voting for him this year to prove a point, but will vote for him next year. Huh???
     
  10. TomVols

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    Exactly. That'll teach him. Please.

    With every comment, I'm starting to agree more and more with those who say we should scrap the whole process and the entire HOF and start all over, that it's been tainted beyond repair. Can anyone with a straight face say that they don't have a point?
     
  11. ccrobinson

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    I'm fine with Hawk in there. He was certainly better than Jim Rice.

    That guy should have his HOF vote revoked instantly.

    Here's how some other idiots voted.

    Jay turned in a blank ballot this year and here's his reasoning.

    BTW, Mariotti voted for Jim Rice last year. He also voted for Andre Dawson and Bert Blyleven.


    Here's Bill Conlin.

    Insane.

    What do we have to do to not allow these idiots to vote again?

    I completely agree.
     
  12. Andy T.

    Andy T.
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    Wow, those are some pretty inane comments by the writers. Ridiculous that they change their vote simply based on what % they got last year.

    I do like the trend for Trammell, although I think he will fall short. Next year, I think Blyleven and Alomar will get in, and Larkin will jump up to about 60%. Morris may jump up to 60%, too. In 2012, I think Larkin gets in and Morris may have a shot, too. If either of them don't make it in 2012, then it will be several years (and Morris may reach 15) before they get in, because the 2013-2015 classes are loaded.

    Back to Tramm - the more votes Larkin gets, the more it helps Trammell. I think the highest Trammell may get is around 40-50%, but he'll get ignored in 2013-2015, and I'm guessing his 15 years will expire around then.
     
  13. Andy T.

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    Well, kind of kidding. But really, they are both 2nd tier - and Dawson was higher than Perez on that WAR list I posted several weeks ago. Perez has the rings over Dawson, but Dawson was the more well-rounded player with speed and defense. Overall, I think they rank pretty close together.

    Interestingly, the 1980's Expos now have 2 HOF'ers - Dawson and Gary Carter. Some think Raines should probably be in too (I tend to lean towards Raines being in). That would give the early 80's Expos 3 HOF'ers (all in their prime). That was underachieving team when you think about it - they knocked on the door for several years and never came through.
     
    #13 Andy T., Jan 8, 2010
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  14. TomVols

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    Yeah. Those Expos just couldn't overtake the Mets and Braves (when they were good during this span). And as for the insanity of the writers, it's almost a requisite characteristic. Someone sent me a list of their annual top ten worst comments by HOF voters. Let me see if I can find it. It just boggles the mind how these morons vote.

    I still can't understand why the "first ballot" is so sacrosanct. No other sport does this. At the end of the day, your plaque hangs in the same spot. Now that this "first ballot" nonsense is being used to punish (a natural corrolary if it's being used to reward), I fear there may be a backlash.

    I disagree. Are they really going to put in two SS in the same class? Maybe one would get in one year and the other the next. I tend to believe Tramm will not get in. Larkin? Who knows. Could go either way. I don't see Morris pegging above 40% . Believe it or not, I wouldn't quibble if all three never made it in. You can make a case that none of them belong. I would argue some marginals are getting much more consideration, but given these artificial minimums that the voters now use, it's kind of a two-edged sword.
     
  15. Steven2006

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    Raines should be a no brainer.
     
  16. Andy T.

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    Not sure about no-brainer, but he should be getting more consideration than he is currently receiving.
     
  17. TomVols

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    Agreed, Andy.
     

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