Angels don't necessarily have omniscience.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jope, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. Jope

    Jope
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    If omniscience was a requisite for angels, the angels of Genesis 19 wouldn't have asked Lot whether or not he had "anyone else [in his abode]...ons-in law, sons, daughters, or anyone...in the city" (v. 12, ESV). The angels would've already knew.

    Some angels do have science to "know all things that are in the earth" (2 Sam. 14:20, KJV) though (otherwise the woman wouldn't have assimilated David's wisdom to an angel of God that has such knowledge).
     
    #1 Jope, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2013
  2. Zenas

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    I don't know whether they are omniscient but they are pretty smart. And to think we humans will be judging them in eternity. :saint:
     
  3. Tom Bryant

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    Did anyone ever say they were all knowing?
     
  4. webdog

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    Only God is omniscient. Angels are created beings.
     
  5. Scarlett O.

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    Jope, I've never heard of anyone who has believed that angels are omniscient. It's impossible. They aren't God.

    Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but whenever we see in the Old Testament, phrases like "Angel of the LORD" or Angel of God" and this "angel" has characteristics OF God -

    - then this is a reference TO God and and an angel like Gabriel or Michael.
     
  6. Jedi Knight

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    Preincarnate Christ ! :wavey:
     
  7. preachinjesus

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    Absolutely! :thumbsup:
     
  8. Jope

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    Some at least, have knowledge of "all things that are in the earth" (2 Sam. 14:20, KJV). I suppose, that, since "heaven" isn't included in the passage, it can't be assumed that they have knowledge of all things that are in heaven.

    So angels aren't necessarily omniscient of things in heaven, though some are omniscient of things that are in the earth.
     
  9. preachinjesus

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    Omniscience isn't subjective, it is an absolute quality of deity. You can't be omniscient of "some things."

    Omniscience is total knowledge of all events in creation and includes exhaustive foreknowledge, historical reflection, and present observation.

    There is nothing surprising for an omniscient being.

    You need to check up on your definitions if you think less of omniscience than I just described.
     
  10. Jope

    Jope
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    "All banks are beside rivers.
    Therefore, the financial institution where I deposit my money is beside a river."

    ~ http://www.fallacyfiles.org/equivoqu.html

     
    #10 Jope, Sep 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2013
  11. Jope

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    If an angel is all knowing of things that happen in the earth, then he is omniscient (omni = all; science = knowledge) of things that happen in the earth.
     
  12. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
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    Just shaking my head at this point...

    No created being is omniscient. For at some point prior to their creation, something was unknowable. As a result only uncreated beings can be omniscient. Angels are created beings. God is uncreated. Only God can be omniscient, only God is omniscient. Angels are not omniscient as they fail to meet one of the basic conditions of being omniscient, that is being uncreated.

    This is classical and accepted orthodoxy. You can't believe angels are omniscient.

    Having knowledge of parts of creation or even acts in history does not equal omniscience.
     
  13. Scarlett O.

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    Good gravy!! I left out a very important word in my first post and it's too late to edit. It should say NOT like Gabriel and Michael.

    Jope, I've looked it up and I was correct. "Angel of the LORD" and "Angel of God" is NOT in reference to a created angel. Your 2 Samuel 14:20 reference is not talking about a created angel knowing all things.

    It's in reference to God. It doesn't mean that God is an angel, obviously. But, in general term, and not in this passage, God has sent a message via a manifestation of Himself. He did not speak to this woman - Joab told her what to say, as Tom said below.

    Your passage is not supporting created angels as omniscient. Whether Joab meant harm or foul, he was the "mouthpiece" of this woman and her telling David that he was as knowledgable as God in David's discovering her deceit .... in my opinion, she was buttering him up because he caught her in a lie and it scared her.
     
    #13 Scarlett O., Sep 12, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  14. Aaron

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    never mind
     
  15. Tom Bryant

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    Take a look at the context of this verse.
    If this verse is teachng that some angels have omniscience about stuff on the earth, it is also saying that Joab did too.

    You're ripping a phrase, not even a verse, out of context and contorting it to say what it does not say at all.
     

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