Animals and souls!

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by bruren777, Jul 23, 2005.

  1. bruren777

    bruren777
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    I've researched the Bible and have not found anything that makes a statement re: animals having souls. I've discussed this with older Christians they say animals don't have souls, so when an animal dies it doesn't go to heaven. I'm inclined to agree that they don't have souls, however since God created them why wouldn't He allow the animal that died go to heaven?

    I'd like some thoughts on this.
     
  2. Ps104_33

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    Maybe he will create some new animals which will inhabit heaven?
     
  3. PastorSBC1303

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    I think that since the Bible is silent on the issue, I shall be silent as well. If God has them there, then great....if God does not have them there, thats great too! I am comfortable with whatever He desires!
     
  4. Petrel

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    I think there will be animals in the new creation, although I don't know whether those that die now will go to heaven.

    I believe C. S. Lewis' theory was that those animals that had been especially dear to people would go to heaven, but others just are annihilated at death.
     
  5. Helen

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    The Bible is not silent on the issue. The larger animals (those with complex nervous systems) are specifically said to have 'nephesh' which is not only translated 'breath of life' but also 'soul.' It is only man, however, who, created in the image of God, has spirit. Animals do not have spirit. The fact that soul and spirit are not the same is attested to in Hebrews 4:12
    For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
     
  6. Artimaeus

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    I love this type of discussion. Mainly, because I am not quiiiiiiiiite there with a conviction but I do have a strong preference. But I have to go to work now and won't be able to participate until maybe Monday. Here's my two cents worth in the mean time. I believe that man is tripartite, body, soul AND spirit.

    1 Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  7. PastorSBC1303

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    Helen, thats interesting....can you show me some references that speak of the larger animals having a nephesh?
     
  8. yeshua4me2

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    amen helen and one has to be born of water (human) and of the SPIRIT (born again) to enter the kingdom of God, so i don't think animals that are here on earth now go to heaven, but i will allow for animals on the "New Earth" in eternity.
    also does not all creation groan due to sin, meaning sin affects all creation, including animals. don't really see how animals going to heaven is in scripture though, unless you count the creature with eyes within and without saying "HOLY HOLY HOLY" mentioned in Revelation.
    just some thoughts on the isue.
    thankyou and God Bless
     
  9. Helen

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    Pastor, when you read Genesis 7:15, about which animals were to come on the Ark, you will read that those on land and in the air with the breath of life, or nephesh, were to be included. When you go back to Genesis 1:21, when God creates the large animals of the sea and the air, you will find only the second time of three instances in Genesis 1 where 'bara' or 'created' in the sense of something out of nothing is used. The first time is Genesis 1:1 and the third at the creation of man in verse 27. It is no accident that 'bara' instead of 'asah' is used these three times. The first indicates the creation from nothing of time, space, and mass (going back into ancient Hebrew as well as the Alexandrian LXX -- not the later Septuagints, but the Alexandrian -- we find that 'heavens' and 'earth' are limited choices for the words in Genesis 1:1. They work fine, but the original meanings are 'bigger' in that they indicate more than 'heavens' and 'earth'). The second 'bara', therefore, cannot be of mass, and animals and plants are certainly made of mass, which man also is. So there was something new with the large animals and if Genesis 7:15 is any indication, then that new creation from nothing is 'nephesh', or that which gives rise to individuality, personality, desires, emotions, etc. It is this which makes one of these animals able to have a relationship with something of another species, able to be trained, and even able to stubbornly refuse an order when trained!

    Man has both mass (body) and soul (heart) and then there is the third 'bara'. Man is created in the image of God. How is that? In John 4, when Jesus is speaking to the woman at the well, He says that the Father is spirit; God is spirit. That is the part of each of us that was created from nothing. Spirit.

    In Revelation we see Jesus coming on a white horse. So, hey, there are at least horses in heaven!

    Will animals simply be annihilated? I honestly don't know. But I sort of doubt it. For although they are enslaved by our sin, they have not sinned. We know there will be a new creation. My ignorant assumption is that it will be at least as complete a creation as that which we live in now. Therefore I do expect to see animals. My hope is that some which I have lost due to old age and/or illness will be there in their young, healthy form. But if not, I know that I will be so overwhelmed by the glory of being with the Lord that everything will be more than OK forever!
     
  10. PastorSBC1303

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    Helen thanks, that is very interesting. When I get back to my office next week I am going to get out my Hebrew references and do some looking at all that...

    And I agree with your last sentence, in the end the glory of being with the Lord will be so great, it will not make a difference one way or another!
     
  11. Helen

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    I'll be interested to know what you come up with, sir. Please let us know.

    Thanks!
     
  12. yeshua4me2

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    very interesting Helen
     
  13. jdcanady

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    Helen

    One problem with what you have said is that the same word for "living creature" (nephesh hayah) is used to refer to mankind in Chapter 2:7, which comes after the third "Bara".

    "Bara" means make or create. It is only used to refer to the activity of God and is used very rarely. The word is different from other hebrew words for "make". It is assumed to be "creation from nothing" because only God does it, but the exact meaning may be lost to us, since we have so few references to it. Technically, it is the activity of God, God "making" something. Creation from nothing fits well, however.

    I tend to agree with yeshua4me2, heaven is for us to enjoy God forever. Even if there were animals there (I don't think so) we will be so busy worshiping and enjoying God that we probably wouldn't notice.

    I see Spirit/Soul as two words for the same thing. The Hebrews passage is an obvious analogy concerning the power of the Word of God. By ordinary understanding, they can't (and shouldn't) be divided, but the Word of God has extraordinary power.

    It would be like me saying "Mike Tyson hits so hard, he could knock the ugly off a gorilla!" Normally, we know that can't happen; the two can't be divided; but the analogy is of extraordinary power.

    My thoughts anyway.

    God bless your worship times today
     
  14. robycop3

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    God made clothes outta animal skins for Adam and Eve, so evidently THOSE animals had no soul or spirit.

    And God gave Noah & Co. dominion over the animals, and gave him the animals for food.

    And who's to say there aren't animals in heaven right now...animals created there, which have always been there? Who can say Jesus won't create a special horse for Himself when He returns?

    We'll know when God's time comes for us to know....
     
  15. jdcanady

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    robycop3

    I guess the question is "is there biblical support for animals being in heaven"? I don't see any biblical evidence for that.
     
  16. Johnv

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    There's no sciprutal support the the idea that animals (aside from humans) have souls. There's no scriptural support for the idea that plants have souls. There's no scriptural support for the idea that protists have souls. There's no scriptural support for the moneras have souls. There's no scriptural support for the idea that fungi have souls.

    Where scripture speaks we shouls speak. Where scripture is silent, we must be silent.

    I personally doubt that animals (besides humans), plants, protists, monera, and fungi have souls, but that's strictly my personal opinion based on scripture. Heaven appeasr to be for those born of water and the spirit. All living thigs are born of water, but only those who became a living souls, and who have accepted the gift of salvation, appear to be heavenbound according to scripture.
     
  17. dianetavegia

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    Isa 65:17 "For I will create a new heaven and a new earth; the past events will not be remembered or come to mind.

    Re 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea existed no longer.

    Re 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: "Blessing and honor and glory and power Be to Him who sits on the throne, And to the Lamb, forever and ever!"

    Isaiah 11:6 The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. 7 The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. 8 The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viperĀ¹s nest 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain, For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea.

    Scripture doesn't imply any creature but man has a soul but I do believe heaven will be as perfect as Eden and will include animals. Animals played an important part of many events. A donkey to carry Mary to Bethlehem, a donkey to carry Jesus into Jerusalem, a donkey to speak to Balaam, Jonah's giant fish, the fish with the coin in his mouth to pay Peter's taxes, David's sheep and killing of the lion and bear, dogs who eat the crumbs from the King's table and lick the sores on Lazarus......

    [ July 24, 2005, 05:24 PM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]
     
  18. cindig2

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    With my body, I have physical life, I know the world beneath me. With my soul, I have psychological life; I know the world around me. With my spirit, I have spiritual life; I know the world above me.

    Plants have a body, but not a soul or spirit. Animals have a body and a soul, but not a spirit. Only man has a body, soul and spirit.

    When my body is right, I am healthy,
    When my soul is right, I am happy,
    When my spirit is right, I am holy.

    Adrian Rogers
     
  19. KenH

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    Having just lost a furkid on Thursday [​IMG] , one of our Shelties just short of her 10th birthday, I hope that I will see my Dream in Heaven. No Scriptural evidence, just a hope to help ease the hurt.
     
  20. cindig2

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    yeshua4m32,

    Everywhere in the Bible when it talks about water, it is referring to the Word of God. I know there are many people that say in John when Jesus was talking to Nicodemus that water means the bag of water when you are born. I don't believe that is what it means, basically because it really doesn't make sense. Everyone has that covered, so why would that be a requirement? Also, and it being the main reason.....is Adrian Rogers preaches that is means the Word of God. My John MacArthur Study Bible also says the same.
     

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