Another huge problem for cessationists!

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by evangelist-7, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    When the gospels were written (a.d.): Matt 50-60, Mark 65-70, Luke 60-70, John 85-95.

    From this time, evangelists were preaching from scraps of the NT written on papyrus
    or parchment, but thankfully only until after 1440 when the printing press was invented.

    Papyrus was used until it was no longer readily available (approx. 200 a.d.), at which time
    parchment became the preferred medium. It was made from calfskin, sheepskin, or goatskin,
    and was very reactive to humidity, and was not waterproof, and was very expensive!
    Hey, it was all about parchment, baby … until about 1500 when paper took over.


    Okay, so much for the Canon of Scripture being used very much for evangelism
    during the first God-knows-how many-years … but it was fun believing it, wasn’t it!

    Regardless, what would have been more impressive for the evangelists to preach with?
    Small scraps of soggy Scriptures – or – God’s signs, wonders, and miracles?

    Hey, again, it’s no wonder that …
    God continued to confirm the truth of His gospel with signs, wonders, and miracles!

    Another reason was …
    He hadn’t read the doctrines of the cessationists, which explained why S-W-M had ceased.

    Yup, it was always a choice between small soggy scraps of Scriptures, and signs.

    As usual, God chose the right method!

    Cessationists, there’s a place in Jerusalem waitin’ for you … it’s called the Wailing Wall.
    Enjoy your trip.

    .
     
  2. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Are you kidding me?!? The scriptures were available in every congregation as they made all kinds of copies of them.

    Do you actually think that apostolic churches did not make abundant copies? Most worked in at least three languages. Do you really think that members of apostolic churches did not make abundant copies of all the apostolic writings and gospels???? Tell me, if you were a member wouldnt' you make a copy for your own family (Col. 4:16) when such a letter came to your church?
     
  3. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    This just came in ... from a Forum Moderator elsewhere, whom I've never quoted here before:

    "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel. He that believeth will be saved, he that believeth not will be lost"

    "Go ye into all the world and preach the gospel, and these signs shall follow those who believe. In my Name they will cast out devils, they shall speak with new tongues, ect. Mark 16: v 15-18.

    There is no other way, but the way given by Jesus to His disciples. Not to adopt this cutting edge approach leads to decline and church closure. This message preached with passion and the anointing of the Holy Spirit brings the blessing of the Lord God Almighty upon our lives....and all that is promised in scripture when such message is preached.

    I can testify over years, to many wonderful things happening to men and women when the 'gospel' is preached.

    Last June I myself was in need.......to begin at the beginning, it was in the year 2008 something came upon me which gave me serious concern. I knew this would worsen, and quality of life would deteriorate. I kept asking the Lord what He was going to do about it. His word says "I will put none of these diseases upon thee. Ex 15: 26.

    The ministry of the Evangelist has been mentioned. Such ministry came to my church last June, a Pastor having such gifting and ministry, in the area of evangelism. He used Acts 1: 8 as a text. "You will receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you......." He questioned where the 'power' was today in our churches? He preached for an hour....a faith building message.

    Then he prayed for everyone individually. He came to me. (You recall I had been asking the Lord) He looked at me and said 'God is going to heal your body' He put his handfs upon me.......and shouted 'Fire' I fell to the ground and stayed there for quite some time.

    Over the next few days I became aware that the agrivation from my disease had quietened. Over the next months it dried up and was gone.

    Hallelujah. There is no substitute for the gospel. It is the only message that brings Gods Salvation to men.


    Maybe someone here will appreciate this!

    .
     
  4. billwald

    billwald
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    > The scriptures were available in every congregation as they made all kinds of copies of them.

    The Tanakh? The Scriptures Jesus used?
     
  5. Gershom

    Gershom
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    I appreciate it :thumbs:

    The closing verses in Mark are enough for me whenever the question of signs ceasing comes up.
     
  6. evangelist-7

    evangelist-7
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    Problem is ... your favorite passage is quite highly disputed.
    However, IMO it's consistent with the rest of the NT.
    So, what the hay!

    Either the Spirit convinces you that those verses are spiritual Truth, or He doesn't.
    (Regardless of whether they're original or added.)

    .
     
  7. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    It is not a question about if they are truth or not. The issue is about your intepretation and application of that text.

    The last verse of Mark looks back at the prophecy and claims it was fulfilled by the apostles. - He uses the past tense not the present tense as your interpretation demands:

    Mk. 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken [Aorist tense] unto them, he was received [Aorist tense]up into heaven, and sat [Aorist tense] on the right hand of God.
    20 And they went forth, [Aorist tense] and preached [Aorist tense] every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


    Why would what they did past tense be any more progressive or repetitive than what the Lord did ("had spolen....received up....sat)?

    Seems this verse is paralle with Hebrew 4:3-4 which also is PAST TENSE and viewed as a completed action with the same persons (twelve apostles):

    Heb. 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?


    He seems to be looking back at a fulfilled confirmation by signs miracles and wonders performed not by "us" but by "them that heard him."

    Let's suppose you are right and SMW are for today. You admit that their are counterfits (Mt. 24:24; 2 Thes. 2:9) and so what would be your test to distinguish God's from Satan's?
     
  8. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist
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    Could you name just ONE apostle living today that fits the Biblical qualifications of an apostle?

    Could you name just ONE prophet living today that passes the Biblical tests of a prophet of God?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    is it the Will of God that once saved, we MUST have wealth/health/prosperity/signs/wonders to be truely saved?
     

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