Another Statement from the Calvinism Advisory Committee

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Van, Jun 11, 2013.

  1. Van

    Van
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    "We deny that any human system of thought or any theological tradition can assume supreme authority or be allowed to supplant dependence upon the Bible and all that it reveals. Neither Calvinism nor non-Calvinism ought to be equated exclusively with sound Southern Baptist doctrine nor be considered inconsistent with it." [Does this mean the “TULI’ can be rejected, but the “P” accepted within the SBC?]

    "We deny that any human being is without need of salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, and we deny any teaching that minimizes the truth about sin and the need of all persons to repent and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ." [Does this mean babies who died are not elected conditionally based on innocence?]

    "We deny that the Gospel is without power to save anyone who repents and believes in Jesus Christ. We also deny that the Gospel as revealed in Scripture lacks anything needful for our salvation." [Does this mean the gospel is the power of God unto salvation and not irresistible grace?]

    "We deny that the Gospel lacks any power to save anyone who believes in Christ and receives Him as Savior and Lord. Anyone who understands the Gospel through the power of the Holy Spirit may, in prayer and petition, trust Christ through repentance and faith, and we should plead with all sinners to do so." [Does this mean the inability to believe if unregenerate is rejected?]

    "We deny that salvation can come to any sinner by any other gospel, any other system of faith and practice, or by any name other than Jesus Christ." [Notice the clarity when dealing with no controversial issues.]

    "We deny that there is anything lacking in the atonement of Christ to provide for the salvation of anyone." [Does this mean Christ died for all men, anyone, rather than only the elect?]

    "We deny that there is any opportunity for salvation after the point of death, when all humanity will face the judgment of God." [Thus Universalism is outside the orthodox doctrine of the SBC]

    "We deny that salvation comes to anyone who has not experienced conversion. We also deny that salvation comes to any sinner who does not will to believe and receive Christ." [Does this mean babies are not elected through innocence, since we were all made sinners?]

    "We deny that missions and evangelism can be neglected without denying the power of the Gospel; that any church can be faithful without a missionary urgency; and that any believer can be obedient without telling others about Jesus. We deny that evangelism can exist apart from the call to make disciples. Every sinner should be implored to trust Christ by calling on Him through repentance and faith, and every convert should be discipled toward maturity, commitment to the church, and passion for the lost." [Again, when dealing with a non-controversial issue, clarity is presented.]

    Notice how difficult it is using the weasel words of the statement to deny either view. Thus the refuge of ambiguity is embraced, rather than coming to a common understanding of what the Bible teaches. Since Jesus taught us to be clear and unambiguous, with our yes meaning yes, and our no meaning no, this statement seems a sinful accommodation of mistaken doctrine.
     
    #1 Van, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2013
  2. Zaac

    Zaac
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    There is SERIOUSLY a group of people who spent time doing this?
     
  3. Van

    Van
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    The tentacles of the TULIP

    1) God desires for all to come to repentance, yet not all do. Calvinism says God only desires the Elect to come to repentance and therefore only grants repentance to the Elect. "L"

    2) Humans are ruined by the Fall, yet required to respond in faith. Calvinists say all men are unable to respond in faith until enabled by Irresistible Grace, then they are compelled to "willingly" come to faith. "T"

    3) God is sovereign in salvation, yet individuals are still held responsible for their reception or rejection of the Gospel. Calvinism claims even though the fallen are unable to receive the gospel, God punishes the fallen even though they are compelled to reject the gospel. "T"

    4) We agree that God loves everyone and desires to save everyone, but we differ as to why only some are ultimately saved. Calvinists denies that God desires to save everyone, He limits His desire to those chosen before creation. "L"

    5) Election is the gracious purpose of God, according to which He regenerates, justifies, sanctifies, and glorifies sinners. It is consistent with the free agency of man, and comprehends all the means in connection with the end. It is the glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, and is infinitely wise, holy, and unchangeable. It excludes boasting and promotes humility.

    We differ as to whether the response of faith plays a role in one’s election. Calvinists say we are chosen unconditionally then given faith. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says we are chosen through faith. "U"

    6) We agree that the penal and substitutionary death of Christ was sufficient for the sins of the entire world, but we differ as to whether Jesus actually substituted for the sins of all people or only the elect. This needs to be edited as follows: We agree that the substitutionary death of Christ was sufficient for the sin of the entire world, but we differ whether Christ died as a ransom for all. Calvinists say Christ died only for the elect. "L"

    7) We agree that the Gospel should be proclaimed to everyone, but we differ as to whether or how every hearer will be enabled to respond. Calvinists say only those enabled by Irresistible Grace can respond. "I"

    8) We agree that everyone has inherited Adam’s hopelessly fallen sin nature, but we differ as to whether we also inherit his guilt. Rather than guilt, it is the consequence of Adam's sin, corruption and separation from God, that is spiritually inherited. Thus the actual issue is whether we are condemned from conception or from our first volitional sin.

    9) We agree that men and women are sinners, but we differ about the effects of sin on the mind and the will. Calvinists assert Total Spiritual Inability. "T"

    10) We recognize the differences among us between the Calvinists who believe that [Adam's] sin nullifies freedom to respond to the Gospel and those who believe that freedom to respond to the Gospel is marred but not nullified. "T"

    11) We agree that God is absolutely sovereign in initiating salvation, uniting the believer to Himself, and preserving the believer to the end, but we differ as to how God expresses His sovereignty with respect to human freedom. "I"

    12) We agree that the Holy Spirit working through the Gospel enables sinners to be saved, but we differ as to whether this grace is resistible or as Calvinism claims irresistible."I"

    13) We agree on the necessity of regeneration that results in God-ordained, Christ-centered, Spirit-empowered obedience from the heart, but differ as to whether faith precedes regeneration or as Calvinism claims regeneration precedes faith. "U"

    14) We agree that most Southern Baptists believe that those who die before they are capable of moral action go to heaven through the grace of God and the atonement of Christ, even as they differ as to why this is so. This refers to the conditional election of the innocent, thus is an exception to the "U".

    All of these 14 issues are addressed in scripture, but the Biblical views are denied by Calvinism in favor of the traditions of men.
     
  4. Mexdeaf

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    Van, are you SBC?
     
  5. Yeshua1

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    ALL have SOME form of limited atonement though, unless you are a Universalist!

    NONE come to God unless the Ftaher draws them, and the HS enables them!

    That statement you posted reads like someone who wishes SBC was officially non cal, but will try to tolerate cals!
     
  6. Zaac

    Zaac
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    Yet again, why are we to the point that the SBC is anything other than followers of JESUS?
     
  7. Mexdeaf

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    Because the term "Followers of Jesus" must be defined by the doctrines that they hold to.
     
  8. Rippon

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    Confessions of Faith are Helpful


    That's why creeds and confessions of faith are so important. Line up a bunch of professing Christians and ask them what they believe. They will say they believe the whole Bible. Fine,but specifically what do they hold regarding the imporant doctrines of the faith. That's where a Confession of Faith comes in. It is subordinate to the Scripture of course. That's a given. But it fleshes out in a meaningful way what the Bible teaches on a particular doctrine.
     
  9. Mexdeaf

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    And every group has some sort of creed or confession even though they may not call it that- or even hold tightly to it.
     
  10. Van

    Van
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    I have attended, but was never a member of a SBC church. I have used in Sunday School, material from the SBC. I do not want to rid the SBC of non-Cals, or Cals, two groups trapped in their own bunker mentality. I want to provide a third view that incorporates the biblically supported doctrines of both groups. But thus far, neither side has considered by view as a possibility, but plenty have said Van you are a heretic.

    You can see from these weasel word statements how Calvinism is splitting the church. And this appeasement effort will go the way of Mr. Chamberlain, and the 1938 accord with Germany.
     
  11. Zaac

    Zaac
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    And shouldn't those doctrines be defined as doctrines of God's word and not some man named Calvin?
     
  12. Mexdeaf

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    Well Van, in that case perhaps you should start a new thread which presents your theory of soteriology in a comprehensive manner. It's kind of hard to follow what you are trying to present.
     
  13. Yeshua1

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    calvin a theologian, NOT author of scripture. nor doctrines of it, just attempted to explain them!
     
  14. Zaac

    Zaac
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    from what I see on here and in Church circles, people talk and argue more about his teachings than they talk about the word of God. And there's just something REALLY wrong about that.
     
  15. RIPP0NWV

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    Hello Zaac

    From what little I have read, that seems to be true. Baptists are suppose to be strong believers in a direct connection between God and the Christian through Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that many are depending on a middle man named Calvin. It reminds me of the Catholic who depends on a priest to confess their sins to.
     
  16. Yeshua1

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    Its the SAME deal as discusiing what Westley/Augustine/Luther/Spurgeon etc all wrote, for ANY teacher of the bible will have discussions around what they held to!
     
  17. Yeshua1

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    So your Bible does not have where god gave the church gifted teachers/pastors/expositors/theologians etc?
     
  18. Tom Bryant

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    I am not a Calvinist, but you really don't know anything about Calvinism if you think this is true.

    Strange though, a few weeks ago a Calvinist likened my non-Calvinism to the Catholicism. Now you liken Calvinism to Catholicism... :sleep:
     
  19. Zaac

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    There is nowhere near the same level of back and forth acerbic talk about all those combined amongst Christians as there seems to be about Calvin and "his teachings".

    It's just weird and kinda wreaks of idolatry the almost, knock down virtual fights that folks will get in over Calvin and that TULIP.
     
    #19 Zaac, Jun 12, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 12, 2013
  20. Mexdeaf

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    Face it, Tom, you're a "closet Catholic".:laugh:
     

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