Another threat to Christian free speech?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Matt Black, Feb 12, 2009.

  1. Matt Black

    Matt Black
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    Story here

    On the one hand, I'm concerned about what appears to be yet another sign that Christians, particularly those of an evangelical stripe, seem to be increasingly the whipping boys or at least poor religious relations of secular employers, particularly those in the public sector. On the other hand, I also think 7-year olds should be protected from being told that they're going to Hell if they don't believe in God (which the little girl was allegedly saying - almost buried in the Telegraph story - blink and you'll miss it - surprise, surprise), especially since that uused to give me the screaming ab-dabs when I was that sort of age; plus, I also think the mother was unwise to email people about it given that she had a clear conflict of interest as both a parent and an employee of the school.

    So is this yet another threat to Christian freedom of expression in this country, or is over-zealous evangelicals being reined in for expressing their beliefs in an offensive manner - or both?
     
  2. Jim1999

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    Matt, it is difficult to get the whole story from the rags. We didn't call them rags for nothing.

    This is one of the reasons I always appreciate our old Church of England expression of "realizing the Christ in salvation" when one comes to Christ. We were not shocked into confessing. We were not frightened out of our boots about hellfire and brimstone. We were not chastized to death. We were led into the "realization" of Jesus' love for us and His promise to give us everlasting love and embrace in salvation.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. annsni

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    In the US, each child has the right to discuss their faith as long as it does not disrupt the normal teaching time or other organized activity in the school. If it was during class time, ANY speaking could be disciplined. But if it was during a time that students were free to speak about anything, then it is illegal to stop her from speaking of her faith.

    I'm not sure how different it is in the UK.
     
  4. matt wade

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    So seven year olds shouldn't hear the truth?
     
  5. annsni

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    No one should have to put their beliefs on the key rack when they go to work or to school. However, we do need to realize what is approrpriate and legal and what is not.

    At 7, I led another little girl to the Lord. Why shouldn't someone tell someone else the truth?

    She did not deal with any of this in a negative way towards the school. She posted an e-mail to 10 close church friends to ask them to pray for the situation. How that got in the hands of the principle, I'd love to know - but she had every right outside of school to ask others to pray for the situation. Whether she was an employee or not.

    It's the school overstepping their legal boundaries. They cannot stop a child from speaking of their faith when it's an appropriate time (when children are allowed to speak freely like in lunch, at recess, or during any other time they can have the freedom to say "Did you see that great cartoon yesterday?" The mother had every right to ask her own friends to pray for the situation that was, from my understanding, an illegal activity against her daughter. There was not one thing illegal in what she or the daughter did.
     
  6. hillclimber1

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    The public school system is firmly standing against Jesus Christ..... Get that, if nothing else...
     
  7. Matt Black

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    Perhaps not presented in that rather brutal way, no. I remember being told similar by the Catholic priests who educated me at the same sort of age and it scared the living daylights out of me and gave me nightmare
     
  8. matt wade

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    Hell is a scary place. It is eternal separation from God. You can't water that down.

    What would you advocate teaching to seven year olds? How do you present the Gospel to them without letting them know the consequences of the unsaved?
     
  9. Jim1999

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    Quote: The public school system is firmly standing against Jesus Christ..... Get that, if nothing else...
    ------------------------------------------

    No, the public school system is being a public school system. Religion has no place in a public school system, period.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  10. annsni

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    But it was not an adult but a classmate. There's a big difference IMO.
     
  11. annsni

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    Religion absolutely has a place in public school. As long as there are those who are religious in public school, religion will have a place. Constitutionally, we are assured the right to practice our religion without the government stopping us from doing so..."nor prohibit the free exercise thereof" If we are to not speak of religion, then we are prohibited from practicing our religion. It is not for the public school to establish a religion but it is absolutely right for them to teach about the religions that are represented in their pupils and religions around the world. Students do not leave their faith at the door and have every right to write papers about their faith, draw pictures of Jesus, speak to their fellow classmates about their faith during appropriate times (lunch, recess, before and after school and any other time free speech is allowed).

    It's sad to think that we would not be able to speak about the hope that is within us when we enter the school doors.
     
  12. Jim1999

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    Public is just that public. People from all religions may attend for a public education.

    If you want religion in the school, go to a Christian school.

    I didn't want my children going to school and have a Muslim present their religion. They would have equal rights in a public school if religion was a permissable subject or topic. No thank you.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  13. annsni

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    You wouldn't want your child to be able to talk about their faith to another child? We're not talking about teachers pushing a religion but about students talking about their faith.
     
  14. Jim1999

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    What if another student defends atheism? Kids are not sufficiently knowledgeable to deal with the complexities of religion. Something in passing may do no harm, but harm can be done on all sides. Remember, knowledge is stored in the brain and emerges at a later date.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  15. annsni

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    If another child speaks of athiesm, that is OK. When I was in school, I was able to defend Christianity against a Jehovah's Witness. If the athiest being allowed to speak of her faith means that my child is allowed to speak of her faith, then that is fine with me.

    That is the greatness of the freedom of speech that we have in the US.
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    Are you comfortable telling God that?
     
  17. Jim1999

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    Yes. Quite comfortable, indeed.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  18. Marcia

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    The problem is that a lot of religions are allowed to be promoted in the schools - all except Christianity. They are teaching kids Tibetan Buddhist meditation in some schools in CA now, and have been teaching New Age types of meditation to kids in which they can meet their "special friend" to whom they can confide anything. This has been going on in several schools for some years.

    In Alabama, parents had to go to court to get them to stop teaching TM (transcendental meditation).

    Because a lot of Eastern and New Age beliefs are disguised as techniques or methods, they sneak into the schools without the label of religion, but they are belief systems or are based on certain beliefs. This is an ongoing battle.

    As far as I'm concerned, evolution is also a religious belief system - it's disguised as science but please look at the thread in this forum I started on "Evolution's Sad Message." It has a religious message.
     
  19. annsni

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    Marcia - I agree with you. I don't think that schools should be teaching religion but teaching ABOUT religion - there's a difference in my mind. It's OK to teach about the different beliefs but to force students to practice those beliefs are wrong.

    But to have a student talk about their faith - that's a basic right that all students should be able to have. It's a constitutional right - and I appreciate that.
     
  20. Berean

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    No, the public school system is being a public school system. Religion has no place in a public school system, period.

    Cheers,

    Jim[/quote]
    The gov. schools stand for and are diametrically opposed to every christian principal. Too bad every child can't be in a private or christian school.
     

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