Anti-intellectualism

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by underscoretim, May 13, 2007.

  1. underscoretim

    underscoretim
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    Why do fundamentalists lean toward or embrace anti-intellectualism?

    What would they think/or do you think/of someone like Ravi Zacharias or apologetics?

    just curious...
     
  2. Hope of Glory

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    Because it's easier than thinking and investigating beliefs that you already hold dear.

    I encountered it occasionally as a child (although I only understand what I was witnessing in retrospect), I encountered it more as an adult, and I encounter it more and more as each day passes.

    Although I've been familiar with the attitude for years, I actually had an elder tell me, "It doesn't matter what the words [in Scriptures] actually say."
     
  3. Ex-Fundy

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    It's there, trust me. I've seen it. I've visited a number of Churches, where the members are.... to steal a phrase, "Dumber than a box of rocks..." and the Pastor, who is a college grad, ain't too far behind them.

    This is one of the many reasons why I left the IFB circles.
     
  4. Don

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    So why are y'all in the fundamental baptist forum?
     
  5. Hope of Glory

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    Umm... Perhaps because we're fundamentalists?

    Just because we disapprove of the way that many fundamentalists are declining doesn't change what we are.

    Much like if your brother steals a car. It might embarrass you, but it wouldn't change what family you're in.
     
  6. underscoretim

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    i'm just here to post the question ^
     
  7. gb93433

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    Anti-intellectualism is not just found among the religious. It is found in every area of society that refuses to study. It is often found among the lazy who want to get somewhere through short cuts when there are none. They think their wisdom surpasses those who have been down the road and know what it takes to get there. They are easily seen a few years later when they show their lack of study and poor attitude toward learning anything. A few years later their arrogance becomes readily apparent.
     
  8. TaterTot

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    and its not just among the "fundy" circles...I have heard several older people say "they'll ruin a good preacher down there at that seminary"

    Many from that generation seem to enjoy the extemporaneous preaching, and most you people I have talked to simply endure it.

    I dont know if thats a hold-over from the hardcore religious groups that have been and are in our area for years or what.
     
  9. gb93433

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    An old man once told me that he had seen many younger men go to seminary and be ruined while he had never seen an older man who did not get more help. When I left seminary I had more passion and better understood who Jesus was and what my passion was to be. When I left I was determined that I would no bow down to the ways of the world which accompanied so many churches in an effort to save my "job" as some pastors who want job security and a pay check. I did not need a pay check but God. Some pew sitters in the congregation did not like it. Some changed and some made trouble. Some of the complacent churches were exposed for some of their godless practices while other churches were encouraged and grew.
     
  10. bapmom

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    underscoretim,

    actually, Ravi Zacharias is one of my all-time favorite preachers.....I get to hear him almost every Sunday morning on my local Christian radio station. My IFB-raised husband also enjoys Brother Zacharias just as much as I do.

    Both myself and my husband also took an entire college class actually called "Apologetics" in our IFB Bible College.

    I even got an A in it.

    There's something else that hasn't been mentioned in this thread. "Intellectualism" is more than just a college degree. Being intellectual does not require one to be at a university or seminary. Being intellectual includes a lifetime of learning, which can be done at a seminary, yes, but it had better not stop there.

    So just because a group of people consider "being educated beyond your intelligence"(KIDDING!) a bad thing, does not make them anti-intellectual. It might mean they don't fit into your little box of what it takes to be educated, but maybe that means you are the one who needs to broaden your horizon.

    I mean, one thing Ive seen IFBs criticized for around here are all the Bible colleges they are starting! How can you have it both ways? Either we are anti-intellectual or we are over-educating our young people....which one? Or does it only count as a real education if the college is NON-IFB, or calls itself a seminary, or if the college has been around for more than "x" amount of years?

    Ok.....really not on a rant......just my two cents......


    :type: :godisgood:
     
  11. Hope of Glory

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    I've seen a few Bible colleges (no names mentioned) that proudly proclaim that they are anti-intellectual. (Not their word, but same idea conveyed.) No Greek, no history, nothin' but the KJB!

    I heard a man once declare, "I'm proud to be ignorant, and I pray the Lord make me ignoranter every day!" (Paraphrase. Except for the "ignoranter" part.)

    He wasn't being sarcastic, he was being quite serious.
     
  12. tinytim

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    But it is not just IFBs.. it is even in SBCs, ABC, and COGS, and any other letter combinations you can think of....

    Talk to some other denominations, and you will here (get it... haha... hear...here... ok, not so funy!), someone refer to Seminary as "cemetary" and that once a preacher goes there it will ruin them...

    As for the IFB "Schools" that have been started here in WV... I know a couple that a pastor teaches, calls it a school, and never uses Greek or Hebrew.. he is KJVO, and tries to keep his people in darkness concerning the original languages... because if they ever found out the truth, he could not be the dictator he is....

    This is one reason ignorance is so wanted among pastors...
    It is easy to rule the ignorant..

    And it is not just IFBs... it is everywhere!
     
  13. TCGreek

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    This issue of anti-intellectualism is nothing new, and the same way it was dealt with before, is the same way it must be dealt with again. Our God will continue to raise up the likes of Ravi and Al Mohler and others to defy the folly that is anti-intellectualism.

    I take comfort in 1 Cor 1:18-2:5 where Paul dealt with the pagan intellectualism of his day and its influence on the Corinthian Christians. At the same time Paul was not anti-intellectual, for we know how intelligent he was.

    When intellectism becomes a god or a reason for boasting in self, then it must be opposed. But if we can temper it with humility like Ravi, then God bless.

    I cannot begin to tell you how many lectures I have of Ravi and I have read most of his books. And I can tell you that he is ground in his God.
     
  14. gb93433

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    People are too interested in style rather than substance. Too often they equate conviction and a good snake oil show as the same.
     
  15. bapmom

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    it is definitely everywhere....none of us has the corner market on ignorance.

    Though, to be fair, Ive heard men saying "I hope I get 'ignoranter'" in response to those who consider faith in God's Word to be a sign of ignorance. That's at least the context whenever Ive heard it said.

    I think some have gone overboard in their response to the lost world's mocking our faith and have made it about education itself.......

    but I still believe that the majority of people who would actually start a college want to do so in order to give people an actual education.
     
  16. mnw

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    The only kind of intellectualism I object to is the following:

    1. The kind that tells me I cannot understand my God or my Bible unless I have studied the Mighty Reformers (Kind of like Theological Power Rangers).

    2. The kind that tells me I cannot understand my God or my Bible without my Great High Priest, Seminary Graduate, Greek-Hebrew Scholar Pastor telling me what to believe.

    3. The kind that tells me that the Creation story is an allegory, the prophets were actually historians, the Gospel’s are based on some non-existent “Q” document, the Pauline Epistles are false and so-on.

    4. The kind that worship at the shrine of Seminary and reject the Amos figures who come down out of the mountains with a burden and message.

    5. The kind that tell me I cannot understand or apply my Bible with out it being relevant to today’s society, i.e. compromised

    6. The kind that changes its mind every five minutes because of the latest podcast

    Please do not misunderstand me. I am all for systematic Bible study. I am studying a Greek primer course at the moment, am applying to take a Master’s degree from an accredited school etc. I teach at a local Bible school and encourage those going into the ministry to get structured teaching.

    But there is an intellectualism out there in Christian circles that lifts up human intellect above Godly faith. There is an intellectualism that reeks of pride and self-centredness; that looks down at the little people all around and thanks God that it is not “bigoted” like them.

    It seems since some in the church got “educated” they have become more like the world, less like God.

    I am not against education and intellect, just against what some claim as intellect and education.
     
  17. Allan

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    I'm not IFB but SBC and I still say - Amen and Amen.

    And to the rest I agree as well.

    To often we look to be like another. And the world sees it and says "here comes another one just like the other one". Instead of here comes a person who's God is the Lord.
     
    #17 Allan, May 15, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: May 15, 2007
  18. Ulsterman

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    I don't know much about Ravi Zacharias or why he is being upheld as an example of intellectualism, but I do know that he attended a "Friendship Evening" at the Mormon Temple in Salt Lake City in 2004 in which avoided all mention of the damnable heresies of Mormonism. He evaded answering a simple question posed to him at the event, “What are the differences between Mormonism and Christianity,” by saying, “I have to keep in mind that I am a guest here,” and at the end of his presentation was given an extended standing ovation from every person in the audience.

    If you folks say he is an intellectual I will accept that, but clearly being deemed an intellectual does not mean that a man is always right nor always to be followed. I would not invite Ravi Zacharias into my pulpit, not because he is considered an intellectual, but because as a fundamentalist I would consider him a new evangelical.
     
  19. Baptist in Richmond

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    Why, precisely the same reason that Fundamentalists venture out into the other forums.....

    BiR
     
  20. Pastor Larry

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    Not all fundamentalists do this. Historically, fundamentalists were very educated, and many are today. There are some who aren't and they tend towards stupidity and arrogance.

    Of course, we must also define "anti-intellectualism." In a previous era (and still today) anti intellectual meant that you didn't accept critical scholarship, that you didn't believe the Bible had errors, etc. Critical scholarship has never actually been intellectual. It just paraded about in the emperor's new clothes insisting that he was smart.
     

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