Anybody ordained claiming exempt?

From the official "opt out form" itself (IRS Form 4361):

SOURCE: www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4361.pdf

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And from www.churchlawtoday.com:

SOURCE: http://www.churchlawtoday.com/newminlesson.php?154

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Based on the IRS's wording, and the wording on tax law experts for ministers, I would strongly disagree with your assessment, Pastor Bob.

 

Take your 15%, invest it wisely along with purchasing a good disability insurance plan. In the end, if you invested wisely, you will do better than Uncle will ever do for you.

 

I oppose Social Security as I believe the govt has no business being in the retirement income business. That said, since I took Pell Grants to go to Bible College, it would be inconsistent of me to opt out of Social Security. However, I do oppose it on religious grounds. I don't believe SS should pay pastors, clerics, imams, rabbis, etc. But then again, as I said, I'm against the whole thing.

So no, I did not opt out because I believe there are few who can do so with integrity. Render unto Caesar that which Caesar should keep his grubby mitts off of, I guess.

Never understood how a bivocational man could opt out with integrity since his secular job pays in. Oh well.

 

If your church will provide a SS offset in addition to your package, do that. You're taxed on the offset, but it's better than having to foot the bill yourself. Others have provided good advice as well

 

That form has been pretty much similarly worded for at least twenty years, as I recall.

 

I simply stated that it has nothing to do with an objection to "the system" as a whole. It only reveals an objection to taxes on "services I perform
as a minister, member of a religious order not under a vow of poverty, or a Christian Science practitioner."

There is no way for anyone to opt out totally. Any secular income will be taxed.

 

A clarification to Pastor Bob:

I don't want to be misunderstood. In no way do I wish to question your integrity. It's simply my opinion that you've misunderstood the concept of "opting out," and the contingencies that our gubmint puts on it. I hope I'm wrong.

 

First. opting out is a matter of conscientious objection to receiving public money based on ministerial income, not paying. . You cannot opt out because you think SS is a bad investment, or to make it easier for the church payroll, or because you would rather invest the money yourself. You can only opt out if you have a religious conviction that you should not receive public funds based on your ministerial work. So if you think you can do better with your 15%, you are probably right, and you cannot legitimately opt out of SS.

Second, the objection is based only on income from religious activities, not on general income. So being willing to accept SS for secular work has nothing to do with opting out for ministerial work.

Third, as self-employed, in most cases you have to pay quarterly estimated taxes.

 

Pastor Larry, my only reason for saying that about bivo ministers is that most who have been bivo (Myself included) consider myself a minister who just happens to have another job, not the other way around. Thus, SS is going to be paying a minister either way.

 

Hey Dan, rather than opting out, we file a schedule c, anything that you expense during the ministry comes off the top as an expense, and you can expense a lot. Income less expenses is what you owe taxes on. Since you are self employed, and there is not an employer to pay half, the IRS allows you to deduct half of what is owed, so it works out about the same. This is how we handled it, but you should really sit down with a Christian certified accountant and discuss your particulars. I didn't opt out based on the render under Caesar principle.

 

Well, you can only deduct from SECA income the amount of expenses equal to the amount of your package not a housing allowance (See my post regarding this). And the deduction you get for half Self Employed tax is a deduction from Adjusted Gross. So it's not really a wash, though it's better than nothing. Always avoid the Deason rule with an ARP, and use an offset if the church will provide one. If not, well, do the best you can and just take our lumps :tonofbricks:

 

Yeah, I have made so little this year, that it looks as if, even not opting out, I will get back 5700 dollars, that I did not even pay in in the first place! Isn't our tax charity, er I mean system wonderful? I have paid NO taxes this year, yet in January I will get almost 6 grand...

Of course, this means the government is in effect donating 5700 dollars to my family's ministry for Gospel proclamation, which is ALRIGHT with me!