Apocalypse Then, Afghanistan Now & Obama at the Precipice

Discussion in 'Politics' started by KenH, Oct 12, 2009.

  1. KenH

    KenH
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    "
    Here’s the thing: This may be our next “Vietnam moment,” but Afghanistan is no Vietnam: there are no major enemy powers like the Soviet Union and China lurking in the background; no organized enemy state with a powerful army like North Vietnam supporting the insurgents; no well organized, unified national liberation movement like the Vietcong, and that’s just a beginning. Almost everywhere, in fact, the Vietnam analogy breaks down – almost everywhere, that is, except when it comes to us. Because we never managed to leave Vietnam behind, even when we were proclaiming that we had kicked that “syndrome,” it turns out that we’re still there. Our military leaders, for instance, only recently dusted off the old Vietnam-era counterinsurgency doctrine that once ended in catastrophe, shined it up, and are now presenting it as an ingenious new solution to war-fighting. Let’s face it: everything about American thinking still stinks of the Vietnamese debacle, including the inability of our leaders to listen to a genuinely wide range of options."

    &

    "It’s early in 1965, and President Lyndon B. Johnson faces a critical decision. Should he escalate in Vietnam? Should he say “yes” to the request from U.S. commanders for more troops? Or should he change strategy, downsize the American commitment, even withdraw completely, a decision that would help him focus on his top domestic priority, “The Great Society” he hopes to build?

    We all know what happened. LBJ listened to the generals and foreign policy experts and escalated, with tragic consequences for the United States and calamitous results for the Vietnamese people on the receiving end of American firepower. Drawn deeper and deeper into Vietnam, LBJ would soon lose his way and eventually his will, refusing to run for reelection in 1968.

    President Obama now stands at the edge of a similar precipice."

    - rest at http://original.antiwar.com/engelhardt/2009/10/11/apocalypse-then-afghanistan-now/
     
  2. targus

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    If Obama is consistent with his standard method of operation...

    He will announce some unspecified plan to be studied at length by someone else before being implemented at some uncertain future date...

    And then immediately declare the situation to be solved...

    While simultaneously blaming George Bush for the whole mess...

    And congratulating himslef on restoring the moral standing of America...

    On the strength of his moral superiority alone.
     
    #2 targus, Oct 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2009
  3. alatide

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    It's really a challenge to try to turn around the disastrous policies of a previous failed administration. Doesn't anybody really believe we'd be in Afghanistan or Iraq under Obama if Bush hadn't decided to invaded those countries for no justifiable reason?
     
  4. OldRegular

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    The politicians and leftist media lost the war in Viet Nam, not the Generals though Westmoreland's body count strategy was poor. If Johnson or Nixon had bombed the dykes in Hanoi the war would have ended.

    Of course the leftist media and the leftist movement among college students could not tolerate a war against Marxism. Now those leftist college students are spreading their Marxist philosophy in our colleges.
     
  5. targus

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    And working for Obama as "czars".
     
  6. KenH

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    Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
     
  7. alatide

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    Seriously, can anyone state what our objective is in Afghanistan? How will we know if we win? I understand that many will say that we lost if we should withdraw but why should we continue to spend our resources and the lives of our soldiers if we don't know what we're fighting for?

    From what I've read, Pakistan seems to be our real enemy. They've harbored the terrorists and there's even evidence that they provided funding for the 9/11 hijackers. If we do stay in Afghanistan we should focus on the terrorists if they are really there. Fighting the Taliban is fighting just another civil war just like Viet Nam or Iraq.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    Ken

    You have made my day. In fact I can revel in your approval for the rest of the week. I feel sure that it will really boost the quality of my posts. Again, many:smilewinkgrin: thanks.
     
  9. carpro

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    That only leaves the military.

    Why am I not surprised you would blame the men that fought, bled and died?
     
  10. saturneptune

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    Probably because (my guess is from the tone of the posts) neither he nor the other Democrat apologist on this thread never lifted one finger to either serve this nation, fight for this nation, or probably, both.
     
  11. targus

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    Your man-crush Obama is "the one" who said, "This is a war that we have to win," so as the-keeper-of-all-things-Obama you should already have the answer to your questions.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    Any lack of objective at this point is solely the responsibility of Obama. Nice to see Media Matters talking points though.
     
  13. poncho

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    How did other all the other empires who conquered Afghanistan do it?

    Learn how they did it and do the same thing.

    Seems pretty simple to me.
     
    #13 poncho, Oct 13, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2009
  14. KenH

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    1) No, it leaves the people who called the shots at the top and made poor decisions, regardless of what part of the government they were in.

    2) I am not blaming them at all and nothing I posted can be construed accurately as saying that I did. My brother(Army) and brother-in-law(Air Force) both served in Vietnam. I have had two grand-nephews serve in Iraq in the Army. No one has greater respect and admiration for our service personnel than I do.
     
  15. KenH

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    I am not a Democrat. I haven't been a member of the Democrat Party since the 1970s. I have been and still am a member of the Libertarian Party since 1980.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    One does not have to be on the rolls of the Democratic Party to be a Democrat apologist.
     
  17. carpro

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    You rolled your eyes at the suggestion that politicians and the media lost the war.
    Politicians are the people at the top, so stop running backwards. To ignore the role the media played is incredibly naive, bordering on outright stupidity.
    But you contend it was neither.

    So:
    Had to be the military that you blame. Go ahead and admit it , it's been that way for decades . Liberals and anti war loons have never quit. You're not the first and you won't be the last.

    Be sure to let your relatives know how you feel. I'm sure they'll appreciate it.
     
  18. KenH

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    True, and I am not a Democrat apologist. I loathe the Democratic Party as much as I do the Republican Party. I would like to see them both in the dustbin of U.S. history.
     
  19. KenH

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    1) Please go back and read what I posted.

    2) The media does not make military decisions. The decisionmakers should not be allowed off the hook by blaming "The Media".

    3) Not at all. Again, please go back and read what I posted.

    4) No, I have never blamed our military personnel in my life and I refuse to be goaded into doing so now. Now the people who set military policy at the top - regardless of who they were - I suggest you look to them for blame. They made the decisions and I don't see why anyone wants to let them off the hook for their disastrous conduct of the war in Vietnam. The privates, and corporals, and sargeants, et al, were not the ones deciding military policy in Vietnam - or any other war.

    5) I willl not admit to something that I do not believe.

    6) I totally agree with you. Fortunately, I have no reason to believe that you are one of those, just as I am not.

    7) The first one to admire and respect our men and women and uniform? I know I am not the first one to do so and I certainly hope that I will not be the last.
     
  20. carpro

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    Still in denial and doing the backstroke.

    I can understand why.
     

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