KATHY I was watching the Discovery channel the other night and the program was about space travel and things of that nature. The narrator was explaining how the earth has a protective barrier that keeps us from getting burned up by the Sun. Then they made reference to the Sun spewing forth "storms" at the earth, and without our barrier, we would be burned to a crisp! Now, I don't know about any of you, but this mere fact AFFIRMS my faith in creation! How could this have happened by accident? I will never ever ever believe that! Our own bodies are a testimony to creation! Imagine how they work and the things we have found out about DNA. It's mind blowing what lengths God went to when He created us! I guess what I'm saying is that for me, science is a good thing because it makes me more in awe of God and His majesty! LATE CRETACEOUS The "barrier" you refer to is the Earth's magnetic field. This field is caused by the Earth rotation which creates flow patterns of molten iron in the outer core of our planet, this movement generates electricity which creates a magnetic field that is roughly lined up with the axis of rotation. We can see the interaction of the Earth's magnetic field and solar output in the Northern Lights - the aurora(increased sunspot activity generally correlates with auroral activity). Occasionally a solar flare will reach the earth and is referred to as a storm, they are generally deflected due to the magnetic field and will yield intense auroal displays. However, these storms can and do "hit" the planet. One storm hit Quebec in the 1980's and knocked out their whole electrical grid (Quebec provides a substantial portion of the power supply to the northeast USA). Massive power outages resulted. These storms also knock out satellites occasionally. MILAN If the conditions on earth did not support life, there would be no life. Many planets don't support life, so there is no life there; this does, so life arises. Nothing so surprising really. HRG/ALTER EGO Following your line of argument, I wonder who made the sun spew forth storms at the earth, so that a protective barrier has to keep us from getting burned - according to your worldview ? I can understand that believers stand in awe at the grandeur of the universe; but if you credit your God with the goodies, you also must credit him with the baddies .... Personally speaking, I think that this is a rather strange way for an intelligent design of the solar system and its underlying physics. HELEN Hi Kathy, I think that the above posts show the real reason most of the evolutionists are here. It is not to discuss anything, but to tear down the faith and beliefs of Christians who 'dare' to consider that God can communicate clearly with man and did so in Genesis. Just to let you know, the idea that the magnetic field is caused by the earth's rotation is not something that is actually known. The truth is, no one really knows WHY we have this magnetic field, or why it has reversed in the past. Nor do we know why the sun's field reverses every eleven years! There's a lot we don't know. But God does, and He is the one in control, and like you, I am extremely grateful not just for His knowledge and power, but for His protection as well. Fresh, "unscientific" eyes that see the world full of God's beauty and miracles and goodness are always necessary on forums like this. God bless you. THE BARBARIAN I suppose people are on two different sides of the same mirror here. I'm constantly in awe of, and grateful to, God for His universe, and the way it works. On the other hand, I recognize that the universe itself is blind, unthinking, and often cruel. Why do completely innocent animals like dogs have to suffer physical torments, fear, and grief? Why do infants? I'm willing to take the bad with the good, even if I don't understand all the details. JOHN WELLS Ecclesiastes 3:11 says this, "...[God} has put eternity into the hearts of men, yet so that no man can find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." Science will never come close to providing all the answers. Kathy, I too stand in awe of God. One day everyone will acknowledge Jesus as Lord, though for many it will be too late for their own good! ARROWMAN Kathy is using "science" in the same sentence as a statement of religious faith. She is implicitly claiming that her religious faith is supported by a particular piece of scientific knowledge. It's more "misuse" or "misunderstanding" than "denial". In short, "I believe that God created everything" is a legitimate statement of faith, whereas "I assert that the layer of atmosphere which protects the earth from the harmful effects of the Sun is evidence of God as creator" is logically flawed. That's all. KMGRABA Originally posted by John Wells: Science will never come close to providing all the answers. Kathy, I too stand in awe of God. One day everyone will acknowledge Jesus as Lord, though for many it will be too late for their own good! Unfortunately, science is the best enterprise we have for discovering information about the universe, threat nonwithstanding. JOHN WELLS Great! A little more objectivity might enhance and hasten the process! But to repeat myself, God will not allow anyone to prove/disprove Him! Can't happen. ED Personally speaking, I think that this is a rather strange way for an intelligent design of the solar system and its underlying physics. Perhaps you can propose a better design? Originally posted by The Barbarian: Why do completely innocent animals like dogs have to suffer physical torments, fear, and grief? Why do infants? I'm willing to take the bad with the good, even if I don't understand all the details. Because we live in a fallen world. Look at Genesis and you will find the answer to this question. Then look at Romans 8 where we are told that all creation groans as though it were birth pangs waiting to be delivered from the curse of sin. THE BARBARIAN Nope. That won't work. Turns out that Genesis doesn't say that. In fact, God merely says that Adam will become an agriculturalist, and sweat and toil for his living. Formerly, it appears that Adam was, like a few people even today, a hunter/gatherer, who didn't work. It says nothing of the animals (other than the metaphorical serpent) being punished. That is man's later addition to God's Word. Then look at Romans 8 where we are told that all creation groans as though it were birth pangs waiting to be delivered from the curse of sin. But that also is speaking of a spiritual longing, not a degeneration of nature. Why would God inflict punishment on innocent animals for man's transgressions? It's not only unscriptural, it's contrary to the nature of God. (Ed regarding the alleged "design" of the Solar System) Perhaps you can propose a better design? Maybe without those huge chunks of rock and ice that hit the Earth from time to time, and wipe out much of life. Of course, it turns out that the last one actually opened up a lot of niches for mammals, which led to us. Maybe it is a pretty good thing God did it His way. But it's still blasphemous to accuse Him of "design". An omnipotent being does not design. HRG/ALTER EGO Perhaps you can propose a better design? Simple. A sun who only emits radiation in the visible spectrum, in an amount which is not hazardeous to anything. No Van Allen belts, ozone layers etc. are necessary. Easy for an omnipotent being to arrange - who, after all, can never say "What else could I have done" ? JOHN2001 Originally posted by Kathy: I was watching the Discovery channel the other night and the program was about space travel …It's mind blowing what lengths God went to when He created us! I guess what I'm saying is that for me, science is a good thing because it makes me more in awe of God and His majesty! Good for you, Kathy! The important thing to remember is to separate apologetics (faith affirming arguments) from science. It is ok to do sermons from science, but to attempt to turn this around and do "science from sermons" leads to pseudoscience. No doubt the folks who wrongly attacked you thought you were trying to do the latter, but did not wait to see where you were coming from. GARPIER An omnipotent being does not design. Pat [Barbarian], I've seen you make this claim a number of times. If God did not design anything, then what in your opinion was behind the creation of the earth? Anybody body who builds anything has an idea or a plan of what they are going to build. I am taking nothing away from the omnipotence or omniscience of God when I say he designed the world. I believe the scriptures indicate that God must have had a design when He formed everything. Genesis 2:5 "and God formed man from the dust of the earth." Jeremiah 1:5 "before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee..." Isaiah 43:7 " Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him." Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it; he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited; I am the Lord; and there is none else." Please explain how it is possible for God to have formed anything without a design.