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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Earth Wind and Fire, Oct 2, 2014.
Why or why not?:tonofbricks:
Why don't you try answering the question.
There is no such thing as denominational salvation, only personal indivdiual salvation and in all cases there is only one way, gospel, Savior and if any are saved they are saved by the very same gospel.
False professions, "tares" demonstrate that even right words don't mean a salvation experience. Salvation is a creative act of God whereby that person is a "NEW CREATURE" and if no creative act no salvation regardless of profession.
First they are not. But this thread was born out of bitterness of another thread rather than an honest attempt at discussion. Its as if you said. "I hate his thread and is makes me mad so I will start one opposite of it to get back at them. Childish.
The Catholic church at its core has serious theological problems. It was a resonable question because of their worship of Mary and idolizin saints. It is also a reasonable question because of their thinking their church is the authority along side scripture. These are heretical teachings and can lead one away from the true gospel.
But instead of recognizing that you just want to play thread games and gotchya posts.
I totally agree
Thats your assumption....one born out your bitterness with me personally. Thats your problem, not mine.
Yes Baptists are saved. They are in the Body of Christ.
Care to define the word all? Sometime it means all. Sometimes it means most or some. Sometimes it means a select few. :thumbsup:
Uh no it is clear from this post.
Then you start one very similar but focused on Baptists. It is in fact your problem.
I think ive made it abundently clear that I'm not a Calvinist, right! There are no reformed issues that will rear its ugly head on this thread.
Kinda reminds me of Existential Willie's dilemma with the word "is."
Please answer these two questions with a yes or no.
1. Are all PROFESSED Christians saved and going to heaven?
2. Are all human beings going to heaven?
No.....now I gotta say more or else this post wont record.
NO, as one can profess all day long something that is not actually the truth, as many soncere [ersons believe that Allah or Buddah or someone else have saved them, and they are wrong...
Are all Baptists saved? Are all Catholics saved? Are all Presbyterian saved? Are all Pentecostal saved? Are all Charismatic saved?
If they are, how are they saved? By believing in the Lord Jesus Christ and that God raised Him from the dead.
Some have allowed the church to build on their foundation works that deny them as having been saved even though they are saved. It is called labouring in unbelief and thus coming short of that rest in Jesus Christ.
As much as believers step out of bounds to condemn Catholics as not saved by their works, ( and even some Catholics, especially the devout ones, will say they are not saved yet... even though His words says they are for believing in Him ) the non-Catholics should look to their own denomenation for any work of iniquity that denies Him as well... like trying to keep their commitment to follow Christ as if that is the power in how we can follow Jesus when it is by faith in the Son of God alone is how we are to follow Him.
So alot of saved believers are engaging in works today that are trying to finish by the flesh what was begun in the Spirit and not just catholicism.
Believers are not to judge any one as not a true believer or not a true christian. They are only allowed to judge the works by the scripture.
Believers can testify that the wayward or sinning believer is not abiding in Him as His disciple by His words, but they cannot judge by saying, "He was never a believer in the first place", or "he is not a brother".
Proof of this is here below:
2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you: 2 And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith. 3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil. 4 And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you. 5 And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ. 6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. 7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;...14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. 15 Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.
So if a professed believer whom does not have faith, is being unreasonable and wicked, and is not following after the traditions taught of us and thus being disorderly, he is still a brother, but is to be admonished by withdrawing from him in the hopes that he will repent.
This passage of scripture was following on the heels of the previous chapter on how there will be a falling away from the faith, and so there will be brothers and sisters that had faith, but fell away from that faith to not have that faith any more, but they are still to be treated as brothers and sisters.
So the goal is not win them with the gospel again when they already know it. The goal is to lead them to repentance from whatever works that are denying their faith in Him that they are falling away from the faith by.
In this case, the apostasy mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2nd chapter is this apostasy of seeking to receive the Holy Spirit again with evidence of tongues which happens to come with no interpretation.
2 Thessalonians 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Here Paul reminds them when and how they had received the promise of the Holy Spirit by the hearing of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
2 Thessalonians 2:13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
This is what happens when believer believer every spirit coming over them to be of God and so they wind up preaching to receive the Holy Spirit "again" after a sign.
Now some will see the wording here as harsh as if these believers were never saved, but two events were being discussed here; the falling away from the faith ( one has to have faith to fall away, right?) and the son of perdition that will be revealed in due time which would be in the midst of the great tribulation.
So what believers are being saved from in context is being left behind to face the coming great tribulation, because God is coming to judge His House first ( 1 Peter 4:17-19 ) and then He will come as the King of Kings in judging the world & Satan. Two events means God will deal with them separately, the falling away from the faith & then Satan.
Those not found abiding in Him & His words will be left behind to be received later on in spite of their works that deny Him, thus they are denied ( Titus 1:16 & 2 Timothy 2:11-12 ), but even though they have not faith & believe not any more, He still abides in them as He cannot deny Himself ( 2 Timothy 2:13 ).
Since Jesus will lose nothing of all the Father has given Him ( John 6:39-40 ) and yet there will be a falling away from the faith in giving heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils ( 1 Timothy 4:1-2 ), this is why many are called, but few are chosen as His disciples to attend the Marriage Supper.
Many believers today look to the church to help them abide in Him, but all believers are to look to the actual Good Shepherd in trusting Him to help us abide in Him & His words as kept in the KJV by those that loved Him & His words. And yes, Jesus will prove to you that the KJV is the one to rely on for His actual words in keeping to the messages that He wants us to have.
Jesus is the Head of the church and the Head of every believer. The church is failing its job when pointing to themselves in coming to God when all invitations given by Jesus was to come to the Son of God in coming to God the Father in anything; fellowship, prayer, and worship.
God went through the trouble of reconciling us to Himself Thru His Son and He wants us to have fellowship with Him thru His Son; the Bridegroom.
Somehow, the church became a means to God when scripture testify that there are no other means to God except by way of the Son, Jesus Christ.
So let us not judge any profess believer as not saved or not a true christian, but let us judge the works as not His for us to be doing, and trust Jesus as our Good Shepherd to help us follow Him when we know the church is not.
Not my call, especially when you attempt to corner me for an attack. Love thinks and believes the best. For the person who confesses and believes on Jesus, I believe them saved. Anything else is plain legalistic.
Thanks Hank....I'm always impressed with your understanding of scripture.:thumbsup:
better question would be if you hold firmly to hersies like word of faith teaches, can one be saved?