ARE ANGELS "SAVED"?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by eloidalmanutha, Apr 4, 2006.

  1. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    do angels have free will? were all angels created with God's Spirit/Holy Spirit or another kind of spirit?
     
  2. Joshua Rhodes

    Joshua Rhodes
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    No, they aren't "saved."

    What do you mean "kind of Spirit"? They are created to serve and praise. Guess I'll do some more looking before I make this my final answer, Regis. ;)
     
  3. rjprince

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    No angels cannot be saved, Jesus did not become an angel to fulfill the law of the kinsman redeemer (goel) to save angels, He became a man to save men. Yes angels had just as free a will as Adam. Job seems to indicates that all the angels (morning stars) were created at the same time, so all the angels were created in unconfirmed creature holiness. Some of the angels (up to a third, Rev 12:4) joined Lucifer in his rebellion against the Most High and therefore fell from their sinless estate.

    Created? God/Jesus created it all. Sin brought the curse, not God's creative word. Joh 1:3 All things were made (ginomai, brought into existence) by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
     
  4. webdog

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    Do angels still have free will?
     
  5. rjprince

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    Webdog,

    personally, I think yes. But I also think that they have seen the results of sinful rebellion in ways that men never will and those who have not rebelled yet, will not rebel. That is just opinion since I cannot find a clear statement to that effect, however it is related to this passage...

    This seems to be the time at which all are confirmed in a state of being either unjust/filthy or righteous/holy.

    Any other ideas???
     
  6. eloidalmanutha

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    by "saved" I am referring to an eternal position of Heavenly residence :D

    we know that angels had free will because satan rebelled. interesting question if they have free will today. I suspect that they do, but rebellion will not be a problem as they probably went through "hell" on that whole deal :eek: I bet they are quick learners ;)

    Paul says that angels are ministering spirits - so what is the make up of angels? the Spirit of God/Holy Spirit or something else?
     
  7. 4His_glory

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    Not only can angels NOT be saved, they do not understand salvation at all and look on in wonderment at the cross of Christ.
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    Whose angels, God's or Satan's? If you mean God's angels, they already are Heavenly beings of some sort.
     
  9. rjprince

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    Angels are individually created free moral agents. They are like people except not bound by the limitations of a corporeal body. Yet they can be appear in human form at times and to communicate a message. There are not made up of God's Spirit or any other spirit. They are spirits in and of themselves...
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    I believe they do. The Bible says we will judge angels someday. If that fact alone doesn't make a person reflect upon one's walk with the Lord, I don't know what will. I for one certainly don't feel deserving or righteous enough to judge angels.
     
  11. SAMPLEWOW

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    4His_glory I don't understand why angels don't understand salvation . Could you please explain this with scripture so I can understand what your saying. :confused:
     
  12. rjprince

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    BroBob,

    Fallen angels are also heavenly angels of some sort!

     
  13. 4His_glory

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    Angels can not be redeemed, Christ did not die for them and we are told that God immediatly reprobated those that fell. (2Pt. 2:4)

    When they see God's salvation of sinners unfold they glorify Him for His great plan of salvation. Peter tells us that angels desire to "look into" the glories of salvation- it is somthing of a mystery to them.

    So angels can see salvation and understand that God is working a great plan, but angels are not all-knowing, and they, never having experienced, salvation can only look upon sinners who are saved with wonderment and glorify God.
     
  14. eloidalmanutha

    eloidalmanutha
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    Angels are individually created free moral agents. They are like people except not bound by the limitations of a corporeal body. Yet they can be appear in human form at times and to communicate a message. There are not made up of God's Spirit or any other spirit. They are spirits in and of themselves... </font>[/QUOTE]Heb 1:13 says they are ministering spirits, same word that is used to describe the Holy Spirit. the only thing that separates a spirit as to its origin is the adjective. for instance: evil spirit, seducing spirits, ministering angels. satan is even described as masquerading as and angel of light. if he is an evil spirit who was once an angel - I am confused as to what kind of spirit "in and of themselves" would this be that is not the Spirit of God at the time they are created?
     
  15. eloidalmanutha

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    Angels can not be redeemed, Christ did not die for them and we are told that God immediatly reprobated those that fell. (2Pt. 2:4)

    When they see God's salvation of sinners unfold they glorify Him for His great plan of salvation. Peter tells us that angels desire to "look into" the glories of salvation- it is somthing of a mystery to them.

    So angels can see salvation and understand that God is working a great plan, but angels are not all-knowing, and they, never having experienced, salvation can only look upon sinners who are saved with wonderment and glorify God.
    </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps angels know they can only commit one sin - ie: satan/rebellion and be cast out. As humans we can sin again and again are are forgiven and cleansed in Jesus blood when we repent. That would probably cause them to marvel ;)
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    2 Corinthians, chapter 12

    ": It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.

    "2": I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
    "3": And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

    "4": How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

    Which Heaven were they all cast out of?
    And again, God's angels are heavenly beings of some sort. The devils angels are different.
     
  17. Brother Bob

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    Strange where one question can lead us. We are heading for some deep discussion, I think.
     
  18. eloidalmanutha

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    I believe that the third heaven is Heaven, the second heaven is outer space, and the first heaven is the earth's atmosphere. I have heard other definitions, but I think these are the most likely ;)

    satan's and his angels were the angels of God at one time, being created as they were. this is why I am suggesting that they were created/formed with the same Spirit as God. when satan rebelled, God's Spirit left him and he took on the evil spirit that has remained.

    let's look at the passage in Ezekiel:

    Ezekiel 28:11 ¶ And the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,
    12 Son of man, lift up a lament over the king of Tyre, and say to him, So says the Lord Jehovah: You seal the measure, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
    13 You have been in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering; the ruby, the topaz, and the jasper, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the turquoise, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of your tambourines and of your flutes in you. In the day you were created, they were prepared.
    14 You were the anointed cherub that covers, and I had put you in the holy heights of God, where you were. You walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
    15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until iniquity was found in you.
    16 By the multitude of your trade, they filled your midst with violence, and you sinned. So I cast you defiled from the height of God , and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire.
    17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I have cast you to the ground. I will put you before kings, that they may see you.
    18 By the host of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your trade, you have defiled your holy places. So I brought a fire from your midst and it shall devour you, and I will give you for ashes on the earth in the sight of all who see you.
    19 All who know you among the peoples shall be appalled at you. You shall be terrors, and you will not be forever.

    "anointed cherub" suggests the Holy Spirit, so I am connecting this concept that the angels were created and formed with the same as God's Spirit.

    thoughts?
     
  19. Brother Bob

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    Ephesians, chapter 1
    "1": Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

    "2": Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    "3": Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:


    Ephesians, chapter 2
    "4": But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

    "5": Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

    "6": And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:


    Hebrews, chapter 12
    "21": And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:)

    "22": But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

    "23": To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


    We certainly agree on the Third Heaven but like you I have heard several different veiws on what they are but to me the First Heaven was "The Church under the Law" and I think that is where the devil and his angels were cast out of for they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb. The Chuch under the Law was in the flesh so Satan certainly had his part. The Second Heaven I believe to be the Church as of today under the saving Grace of Jesus Christ who died that he might take the church out of the flesh and put it in the heart where the devil has no part. The devil can still reach the outward man (flesh) but the church itself is inwardly and God seekth such to worship in Spirit and in Truth, no longer the fleshly offerings or fleshly circumcism but now of the heart.
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    Exodus, chapter 3

    4": And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

    "5": And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

    "6": Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

    Don't understand how They could do those things in the eternal Heaven?


    Forgot this passage
     

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