Are Christians Better than Non-Christians?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Marcia, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    The now closed thread on flu shots for prisoners in the forum, "News that Affects Baptists Worldwide" brought out some comments that really disturbed me, namely, comments that make it sound like some Christians think they are better than others. I saw an appalling lack of compassion in some comments there, and I have seen it too often in other forums, which is why I am starting this thread.

    One thing we Christians should avoid is smugness and holier-than-thou attitudes toward the lost, yet I see it all the time on the BB. Frankly, I find it discouraging and heart-rending. We were all once unsaved and we are saved ONLY by God's grace. We are justified in God's sight but we are still sinners; we are transformed by the HS but it by His strength and power, not ours (see Galatians).

    Can't we believers in Christ stand firmly against sin without being smug? Can we not stand against sin but still have compassion on the lost? I think we can; in fact, we are called to do so.

     
  2. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    Amen. We are no better, just better off because of Christ and Him alone.
     
  3. James_Newman

    James_Newman
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 6
    31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
    32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
    33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
    34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

    I don't claim to have His righteousness, but I believe the bible teaches that if we put Him first, and seek the kingdom like He commanded us to do, He will indeed provide for our every need. If we need flu shots, they will be provided. Personally I do not ever take them, but prefer to let God decide if I need the flu or not. [​IMG] But I am hardly what the world considers 'high risk'.
     
  4. Elnora

    Elnora
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    8,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Beautifully put. I think I will save it as a reminder that I can easily slip and fall. I pray I will remember to show the mercy I would like extended to me when I do.
     
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    And toward other Christians.

    Remember, I am a recovering Pharisee and one of the most enjoyable thing we do is judging others, holding them to OUR standards, and often NOT EVEN TELLING THEM what the standards are so that when they fail -- and they will -- I will be better.

    Think every local ifb church should have a 12-step program for recovering pharisees. It would be well-attended . . .
     
  6. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    20
    Marcia wrote,

    Some Christians have been saved—the Bible calls them saints, not sinners!

    [​IMG]
     
  7. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    I read, and participated in, the afore mentioned thread.
    Indeed, it was appaling to see the "me first-you next" attitudes in there. I got angry with a couple fellers. Rightly so, I believe.
    It is not just the one thread either. It is rampant on this board.
    In one thread, on a particular forum, a poster commented how he could not put his finger on it but he felt a bad spirit in there. Something is underlying every post.
    I did not reply, but I do agree with him.
    I think, in many cases, what begins or is introduced as an honest quest for learning, the thread rapidly turns into a fight. Really venemous. Interesting word huh? Venemous. Reminiscient of a snake?
    Nuff said.
    It saddens me that folks cannot or will not be civil at the very least when disagreeing about a subject.
    My brethren, this ought not to be so.
    In His service;
    Jim
     
  8. Elnora

    Elnora
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2001
    Messages:
    8,260
    Likes Received:
    0
    Some Christians have been saved—the Bible calls them saints, not sinners!

    [​IMG]
    </font>[/QUOTE]Yes we are called saints. Only because of what Jesus Christ did for us. We are clothed in His righteouness, not self-righteousness. So we have no reason to boast.
     
  9. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,144
    Likes Received:
    321
    They have a better God.

    HankD
     
  10. LorrieGrace

    LorrieGrace
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2004
    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    0
    I didn't participate on that particular thread but sometimes if feel that we can say things in haste, regretting it later. Prayerfully, that is what went on there and elsewhere.

    As for those in prison, sometimes the Lord has to use drastic measures to reach some people.

    Those in Congress can get flu shots if they wish. And many of those do not fall into a high risk category. People in prison, being housed in tight quarters, would be more high risk, IMHO, that is.
     
  11. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    If you read the full news article, the only persons in that prison receiving the flu shots were those with HIV, liver disease caused by drug and alcohol use, pregnant, etc. (other illnesses listed but I'd be guessing if I tried to list them) and not the general prison population.

    Shots were given, in that town, to those persons while the man's elderly wife and 80 year old neighbor were refused even tho they suffer with many health problems.

    How would you feel if flu shots were given to abortionists, because of their close contact with ill people in ER rooms, etc., over children with bad hearts or Cystic Fibrosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Sickel Cell Anemia, Leukemia, etc.?

    Diane
     
  12. delly

    delly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2004
    Messages:
    660
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen Hank. We do have an AWESOME GOD. [​IMG]
    I don't feel that I'm better than non Christians, but I sure feel sorry for them and what they are missing.
     
  13. av1611jim

    av1611jim
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2002
    Messages:
    3,511
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sounds to me like somebody is looking for a perfect world where nobody gets left out? :rolleyes:

    That's the way it is.

    How would you feel...means nothing other than your letting your feelings rule. Got news for you. Feelings change.
    To the subject. Are christians better than non-christians? I echo someone else. Nope...just better off. By God's grace alone. And were it not for that all of us could be in Africa begging for food. Or shelter. Or clothing. Forget about a flu shot so we can be comfortable this winter.
    In His service;
    Jim
     
  14. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Are Christian's better? Who's YOUR Daddy?

    Corinthians 4:1 A person should consider us in this way: as servants of Christ and managers of God's mysteries. 2 In this regard, it is expected of managers that each one be found faithful. 3 It is of little importance that I should be evaluated by you or by a human court. In fact, I don't even evaluate myself. 4 For I am not conscious of anything against myself, but I am not justified by this. The One who evaluates me is the Lord. 5 Therefore don't judge anything prematurely, before the Lord comes, who will both bring to light what is hidden in darkness and reveal the intentions of the hearts. And then praise will come to each one from God.

    The Bible says this about a Christian's daily walk.

    Galatians 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. 19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

    Who is your Father?

    Romans 8:15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father."

    The Bible says this about your physical body.

    Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

    The Bible says THIS about your Father.

    Psalm 50:10 For every beast of the forest is Mine, And the cattle on a thousand hills. 11 I know all the birds of the mountains, And the wild beasts of the field are Mine. 12 "If I were hungry, I would not tell you; For the world is Mine, and all its fullness.

    You are created in Jesus Christ alone!

    Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

    Our Father gives us all we need.

    1 Corinthians 3:21 Therefore let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: 22 whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come -- all are yours. 23 And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.
     
  15. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    20
    Diane,

    Amen! [​IMG]

    Gal. 6:10. So then, while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith. (NASB, 1995)

    [​IMG]
     
  16. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    20
    The point here is that Jesus Christ DID do it.

    1 Cor. 6:9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    Christians are NOT the people that they were before they were saved, not only because the Bible says they are not, but because they ARE new creatures.

    2 Cor. 5:17. Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. GeneMBridges

    GeneMBridges
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2004
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes,

    We are new creatures. However, I point out two things.

    First, Luther said it best when he wrote that, while we are justified in Christ and saints, we are sinners as well in this life. We are simutaneously saints and sinners. This is orthodoxy regarding the way the Christian life is lived.

    We are simultaneously dependent on the Holy Spirit and His work in us and on Jesus and what He did at the cross and the resurrection and responsible to pursue holiness and godliness. We are simutaneously saints and sinners in that respect. The same apostle that wrote "In his great mercy he has given us new birth...into an inheritance that can never perish (1 Peter 1:3-4) also wrote "Therefore my brothers, be all the more eager to make you calling and election sure.(2 Peter 2:10. Paul says nothing "will be able to separate us from teh love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord (Rom. 8:29) also wrote "I beat my body and make it my slae so that after I have preached to ohers, I myself will not be disqualifed for the prize. (1 Cor. 9:27).

    The same apostle, Paul that wrote that we are new creations also calls himself a sinner and the worst of them. We are no better than Paul. Are we saints, YES. Do we sin? YES, and so, while we are new creations, we are also sinners until that which has been done is made complete.

    We see in this the Incarnation reflected in the Christian life. Just as Jesus was FULLY God and FULLY man, so, in this life, we are FULLY saint and FULLY sinner simultaneously and without contradiction with no division. We are not two persons living in one, for that would be dualism. We are a new creation, but that new creation is plagued by two volitional principles, two minds, one spiritual, one not; one saintly, the other sinful. The old man is dead, but his mind still lives on in the new man. In this sense, we are new creations, dead to sin and alive to God, but still one person, living with a history of sinful thought patterns, emotional traumas, and habits we have developed over time. In this sense, we are one person of two minds. Paul teaches that the renewed man (one man and one nature still) is imperfect, having two principles of volition mixed in the motives even of the same acts; but he does not teach that he has become "two men," or has "two natures" in him. Paul's idea is, that man's one nature, originally wholly sinful, is by regeneration made imperfectly holy, but progressively so. Yes, we stand righteous before God, who through Jesus alone, has provided a full and definite, actual atonement that has satisfied his wrath, and we have been regenerated and brought to faith and repentance. We are new. We are saints. However, in this life, we have two minds at work in us, and so we are simultaneously saint and sinner in relationship to the process of sanctification.

    Does this make us "better" than nonChristians. YES, for we have God as our Father, Christ as our Savior and Master, and the Spirit as our Teacher and Counselor. We are heirs of the kingdom, children of promise.

    However, we are to follow Christ's example in the way we relate to each other and the world While fully God and fully man, He laid aside no intrinisic attributes (for the Chalcedonean Creed is true), but He did for a time lay aside His glory and His dignity, and it is this example that we, with all that we are and have in Christ must follow, just as Paul wrote in Phil 2: 5 -8

    Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus,
    6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped,
    7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men.
    8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.
     
  18. BillyMac

    BillyMac
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2003
    Messages:
    710
    Likes Received:
    0
    And toward other Christians.

    Remember, I am a recovering Pharisee and one of the most enjoyable thing we do is judging others, holding them to OUR standards, and often NOT EVEN TELLING THEM what the standards are so that when they fail -- and they will -- I will be better.

    Think every local ifb church should have a 12-step program for recovering pharisees. It would be well-attended . . .
    </font>[/QUOTE]You know Dr. Bob.... I really appreciate you. There was a time not too long ago either that I thought that bow tie looked horribly out of place, but you know...... I'm now seeing it as a standard of excellence. Don't get a big head, but there must be something in the water up there in Wyoming... or is it the crisp clean air?..... that gives you always a clean fresh look at life on these boards.

    (that's the long way around of telling you I liked your post.....)


    AND, here too is another post by a different author that I liked:

    Now THAT'S a keeper.....
     
  19. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    20
     
  20. Craigbythesea

    Craigbythesea
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2003
    Messages:
    5,500
    Likes Received:
    20
    I have seen some grotesquely repugnant statements on this message board, and there are a few of them in the post that I am quoting from, but this is most certainly the worst that I have seen to date!

    If such a statement were true, that would mean that our Lord Jesus Christ is impotent to save sinners.

    1 Cor. 6:9. Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
    10. nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
    11. Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

    Shackled by a heavy burden,
    'Neath a load of guilt and shame.
    Then the Hand of Jesus touched me,
    And now I am no longer the same.

    Refrain
    He touched me,
    Oh, He touched me,
    And oh the joy that floods my soul.
    Something happened and now I know,
    He touched me and made me whole.

    Since I met the Blessed Saviour,
    Since He cleansed and made me whole,
    I will never cease to Praise Him!
    I'll shout it while eternity rolls.

    Refrain
    He touched me,
    Oh, He touched me,
    And oh the joy that floods my soul.
    Something happened and now I know,
    He touched me and made me whole.
    (repeat the refrain 2 times)

    He touched me and made me whole.

    Amen! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     

Share This Page

Loading...