Are Israelites gentiles?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Amorphous, May 18, 2016.

  1. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
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    Is there someone that can help me understand these scriptures? They are confusing me. It seems like these verses are saying gentiles are Israelites. It appears to start with a prophecy in deuteronomy.

    They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will "move them to jealousy" with those which are not a people (loammi); I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation. Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV

    As deuteronomy says that Israel would be "made jealous" with those that are "not a people," Hosea shows Israel becoming "not a people".

    Then said God, Call his name Lo–ammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God. Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God. Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel. Hosea 1:9-11 KJV

    Now where I get confused is that it seems that Peter and Paul quote the above verses talking about the Gentiles.

    But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: Which in time past were not a people (loammi) , but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, (lo-ruhamma) but now have obtained mercy. 1 Peter 2:9-10 KJV

    Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? he saith also in Osee (Hosea), I will call them my people, which were not my people (loammi); and her beloved, which was not beloved. Romans 9:24-25

    I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for "to provoke them to jealousy". Romans 11:11 KJV

    So from the latter three passages it appears that Peter and Paul say that when Israel became divided into two nations, Israel became those who were not a people and had no mercy, and then because of Christ they became a people again to provoke the others to jealousy. I saw this link between verses by some different cults that advocate that only Israel would be saved. But I'm not sure how to address these verses. My other confusion is that the term for gentile ethnos which means nations. Israel was divided into two nations. And the other is that they sat the other greek word, Hellena I think it was, which means "greek" can mean Israelites living as greeks.

    Another point was that 1 Peter 1:1 says that it is written to the dispersed Israelites and that John 7:35 says Christ would go to dispersed among the Gentiles to teach the Gentiles.
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    Israel does not become two people.
    God uses gentiles to provoke Israel to jealously.
    Isaiah 65King James Version (KJV)
    65 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.

    rom10:
    19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

    20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.

    21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.
     
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  3. SovereignGrace

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    The Gentiles means everybody that is not from the lineage of Abraham. Gentiles are Americans, Russians, Canadians, Grecians, Asians, Egyptians, Brazilians, Colombians, et al.
     
  4. Aaron

    Aaron
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    The distinctions according to the law are no longer valid. Abraham was called and the promise given while he was yet uncircumcised, and God has made of one blood all nations of men. So what you are seeing are allusions to this truth. The law is done, and with it the temple, priesthood and the offerings. What should be the Jew's advantage has become his stumbling block, and the gentiles enter in unimpeded, heirs of the Promise, and joint-heirs with Christ.
     
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  5. Van

    Van
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    Hi Amorphous, the body of Christ is split six ways from Sunday concerning how the Old Covenant and the New Covenant fit together. So what follows is just one of many differing view.

    Once a person is saved through the blood of Christ, it makes no difference if they had been slave or free, Jew or non-Jew (Gentile) male or female. We are one in Christ.

    Take a look at Galatians chapter 3, it makes the case that when we (non-Jews) become born anew, we become children of Abraham (i.e. Jew), and therefore children of the Promise.

    This view is called Progressive Dispensationalism, and is distinctly different from Traditional Dispensationalism (which claims the church is not grafted into Israel.)
     
  6. kyredneck

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    16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice: and they shall become one flock, one shepherd. Jn 10

    14 For he is our peace, who made both one, and brake down the middle wall of partition,
    15 having abolished in the flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace; Eph 2

    15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
    16 And as many as shall walk by this rule, peace be upon them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. Gal 6

    ...but there were 'two' Israels (I guess still is):

    6 But it is not as though the word of God hath come to nought. For they are not all Israel, that are of Israel: Ro 9
     
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  7. kyredneck

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    Well put.
     
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  8. kyredneck

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    The nations, Gentiles. Although there were MORE of His children among the Gentiles during the old covenant than there were of Israel:

    1 Sing, O barren, thou that didst not bear; break forth into singing, and cry aloud, thou that didst not travail with child: for more are the children of the desolate than the children of the married wife, saith Jehovah. Isa 54

    But now:

    2 Beware of the dogs, beware of the evil workers, beware of the concision:
    3 for we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God, and glory in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh: Phil 3
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
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    ="Amorphous,

    Those who were { not a people} were gentiles, that is non covenant people.....
    The language of the Covenant was......you shall be "my people" ....I will be your God.

    Leviticus 26:12
    And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.


    it is true of all believers now, jew or gentile;
    2 cor6
    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

    18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
     
  10. Grasshopper

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    Without getting to in-depth, consider those verses are speaking of the 10 Northern tribes, not all 12. Now remember the 10 Northern tribes (aka: House of Israel, Ephraim) were dispersed and assimilated among the nations. However the promises given to the House of Israel would be fulfilled. They would be reunited with the two Southern tribes (Ez. 37: 15-19). Thus in the New Testament, in the last days ( last days of the Old Covenant, not the world), you see this prophecy fulfilled. The two sticks are one (Eph:2:14).
     
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