Are "Law-abiding" Americans Thieves? When Will We End It?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by iq4truth, Apr 13, 2008.

  1. iq4truth

    iq4truth
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    We go to U.S. law and the Bible and read, "Thou Shalt Not Steal."

    And yet, most "law-abiding" Americans who would never say that it is OK to steal, believe that it is perfectly legitimate to ask the government to steal for them, which, by their actions, define them as socialist, if not communist, and as criminals.

    How does the government steal for these socialist "law-abiding" Americans? It's simple!

    The "law-abiding" American says, "I would like to have my children educated." The "law-abiding" American goes to the government and says, "look, I would like to have my children educated, I know it costs money, but I don't save money to pay for it. So, I want you to go to my neighbors and take money from them to teach my children."

    "I'm against stealing, you understand - I would never take a shotgun over to my neighbors and forcibly take from them all of their possessions or a percentage of the value of their land - I would never do that - but I will ask you, the government, to do it."

    "And, I would never steal from my neighbor to buy a house, but I will ask the government to do it, to come up with a matching grant for my downpayment."

    "From Each, According to His Ability, To Each, According to His Need" (the classic statement of the socialist).

    [​IMG]

    RELATED ARTICLES:

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    Send the link EVERYWHERE!
    http://fp.users.fast.net/infoquest/Civics_in_Seconds.htm


    What If Public Schools Were Abolished?
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    THE BIBLE AND PROPERTY TAX
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    +++
    Note: Dear Baptist Patriots, this is one in a series of short emails, usually initiated by a story, the goal of which is to have them emailed/posted to friends/family/peers who are unaware of the Collectivism entrenched in the U.S.A.. I implore you to email this far and wide. I shudder at the thought of Obama or Hillary - clearly communist - or McCain - clearly fascist - in the oval office. Only educating the citizenry on the basics will crack the ice to allow them to see through to the truth.
    +++
     
  2. poncho

    poncho
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    There are no law abiding citizens in the United States today.
     
  3. billwald

    billwald
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    Your condo assoc votes to raise the dues. Are they also thieves?
     
  4. JustChristian

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    Why do you say that?
     
  5. JustChristian

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    Your link to the article about the Bible and property tax makes this point:

    Leviticus 25:23 God is establishing various laws regarding land and He says to the Israelites "The land shall not be sold permanently, for the land is Mine; for you are strangers and sojourners with Me."
    The land belongs to God, not the State.

    This also means that the land cannot belong to you or your children, grandchildren, etc. Are you claiming that the Bible is against buying a house or a farm?
     
  6. windcatcher

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    BB, I think if you study the laws regarding property and inheritance in the Bible, you will see that the verse you quoted is like a foundation on which... other verses indicate, property (agricultural anyway) was tribal, then family, passed on to nearest heir in family. Land as payment for debt had to be returned in the year of jubilee and any unpaid debt forgiven. Leviltes could not own land: their portion was the temple and the tithes. The towns had a different order regarding the land...

    Still, if you agree with the Bible and God's provision...... isn't everything his? By its being his, doesn't negate our 'ownership' (make that stewardship) if he's given it to us for inheritance.
     
    #6 windcatcher, Apr 14, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2008
  7. windcatcher

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    A quote from the article in the first link...notable I think... and I agree with content of article:
     
  8. windcatcher

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    Add to that another IF.

    IF each of us had enjoyed the provisions of God in providing for our necessity, and content with little more than that which was needed to live and provide for our own and graciously shared out of our abundance...first to the church and those in need..... Perhaps there would be less envy and coveteousness, and competition to beat what another has, or to compare. Perhaps our own stewardship would have been an example to our children and our neighbors and friends and an encouragement to those with less. Perhaps, if we saw no difference and included people in our group of friends based upon their character and not worth. Maybe, instead of insisting on 'self esteem' we had obeyed the directive to esteem others more worthy than our selves..... A Lot Of IF'S.

    I enjoy Roger Whittaker's music. One song 'specially comes to mind, "I don't believer in IF anymore" ........if is for children.
     
  9. JustChristian

    JustChristian
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    I was just commenting on the article that was posted, The Bible and Property Tax, which claimed that paying property taxes meant that our land was owned by the government. I certainly have to agree that God is sovereign over the world and everything in it. I don't think that means we can't own property.
     
  10. windcatcher

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    :thumbs: I hear ya, BB.
    Good to know where you stand.... on owning property... and the Bible.:thumbs:
     
  11. iq4truth

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    Small Town (Perkasie) Problem - National Issue: Socialism

    Dear Friends - two letters to the editor.....

    Here's the coverage of the Council meeting by the Intelligencer:
    http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/113-07222008-1566311.html

    Follow-up letter to editor - not yet published by Intelligencer:

    Just five minutes. I implore you. Just five minutes. Read from the following page for just five minutes.
    http://www.geocities.com/graymada/tsa.html

    Saving your country is up to you.
    Knowledge.
    Prayer.
    Wisdom.
    Action.

    Godspeed.

    Just five minutes. I implore you. Just five minutes. Read from the following page for just five minutes.
    http://www.geocities.com/graymada/tsa.html
     
    #11 iq4truth, Jul 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2008
  12. YOUTUBECANBESAVED

    YOUTUBECANBESAVED
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    Kind of going to extremes aren't you?over trash bags!

    [​IMG]

    Could you do me a favor since you live there could you just ask Mr.Olphere if he is a Republican,Demorcrat,Independent, or Socialist. Thanks

    Apparently Dan has some health issues and needs your prayers
    http://www.redorbit.com/news/busine...er_with_dan_olpere_out_for_surgery/index.html

    Apparently your bourough has not quite found its legs but a socialists conspiracy I think not.
    http://www.redorbit.com/news/busine...e_resignations_havent_yet_affected/index.html

    They are working to find solutions and what i can read the 50 cent is a short term fix but i still do not see some grand communist conspiracy and anyone say"Comrade"
    http://www.mcall.com/news/local/quakertown/all-b4_2perkasie.6494461jul08,0,4408292.story

    It looks as if they are working on it and are concerned about it you may just get
    a Contractor to do your trash hauling in the future but to start raising pitchforks and torches and labeling and such is , well, extreme in my view.

    http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-b3_2perkasie.6514683jul23,0,1203838.story


    You do realize trash bags are oil based
    You do realize their is a recession going on for the lower and middle class and they are squeezed and that trash bill may have gone to the bottom of the pile.
    By all means stay involved bring solutions to the council but be wary of labeling people. It only builds barriers , I think discernment is your best guide and lay off the conspiracy books.;)

    Solution: A contractor to haul your trash
    Solution: Scrap this bag program let the homeowners buy from a store
    Solution: invest in on time information that will tell the garbage pick up people who is deliquent and have options to go to the door and ask for a check or credit card , the technology is there also push for automatic deduction make it easy to pay on line in your borough.
    Humor Solution: arrest all socialist you suspect and have them pick up the trash for free!:thumbs:
     
  13. rbell

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    Wow. Thanks for calling me a thief.

    Guess I should refuse to pay my taxes. Of course, that would involve ignoring the words of Christ to "render unto Caesar..." Oh well. Pick your sin, huh?

    But hey, what do I know? I'm just a criminal, trying to get by.


    :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Good grief.
     
  14. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
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    To apply my best "Hollywood Theology" to this question; do you remember the first Crocadile Dundee movie? The girl ask's Dundee something about aborigial claims of land in Australia. Mick's response was something like:
    We really don't own anything, we are only temporary stewards of God's creation.
     
  15. Aaron

    Aaron
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    Good posts, windcatcher.
     
  16. iq4truth

    iq4truth
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    Wow. I see the government school system and the media have done their job well. Looks like those who've posted are a-ok with the status quo, socialism, to the greatest degree.

    The Borough trash example was even titled as just a little Borough issue - a reflection of the bigger national issue.

    What conspiracy theory? The facts are all around you! Please, open your eyes!

    The Federal Income Tax; the Federal Reserve Banking System; centralization of communication/transport via the FCC, ICC, Amtrak, Conrail, etc.; government schools; government insurance (Social Security); government healthcare (Medicare, Medicaid); government housing (Section 8); government confiscation/rent of land (national parks/forests, eminent domain, EPA); government-mandated firearm registration/confiscation; and more.

    Obviously, noone spent just five minutes reading the easy-to-understand report, http://www.geocities.com/graymada/tsa.html.

    Pathetic.

    "Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's?" Tell me, what is Caesar's? The coin from a fish's mouth? Jesus did not say what is Caesar's. Complete government control over its citizens? Just five minutes.
     
  17. billwald

    billwald
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    America was founded for the purpose of stealing

    Stealing from the Indian People. Also for killing as a means to an economic end.

    The rich Virginia planters had made claims to the western lands - hundreds of square miles. During the French and Indian War King George forbade the colonists to go into the western lands because he didn't want trouble with the French and Indians. This would have cost Geo Washington and fiends much potential income. Thus the war for independence. It always was to make the rich, richer.
     
  18. windcatcher

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    Well, this certainly is not encouraging to any poster whether they agree with you or not. I for one quoted from the content of the site to which you linked...... I quoted what I considered to be the real essence.....although it certainly lacked the documentation and the historic evidence which that long site (it actually took me longer than 5 minutes to read....but I've always been a slow reader, so maybe I'm too dumb for you.?)
    For this reason our forefathers resisted the British crown: For this reason, our forefathers also debated and refused pensions to war widows. They saw programs to help the unfortunate as the responsibility of the private sector and private charity.

    One point I did not make very clear: The politically active socialist in our society and government have succeeded very well in indoctrinating us that it is communism we should fear..... and the countries which we/they call 'communist' when in reality, those governments are socialist, and our enemy is socialism. Our leaders have supported the socialist agenda while distracting us with the fear of 'communist' enemies. ....a rose by any other name? McCarthy tried to warn the people, but he was/is laughed at. Socialism and the indoctrination of people to be sheeple of the state was studied and the education system which dumbs down students to be mindless slaves accepting any and all indoctrination of the state, was brought to America and incorporated into our education system from the model developed in socialist countries like Russia.

    Government was never meant to provide for our security. For our defense ......yes. But the responsibility for security belonged to every head of household and to the governance of his community and county.

    Regarding the private ownership of land: I say that when government can levy a tax on property you paid for and own..... and take that property from you for a pittance of its worth because misfortune has hit you and you cannot pay your taxes..... then one no longer has free and clear ownership. The tax is like a 'rent' which comes due every year, without which payment, one is evicted, even if it was their homestead, or farm on which they depended for their living. If the government really cared for its people, the last thing it would do is take their home and their land. This is offensive to me.

    Also and even more offensive to me is that I am taught and it is promoted by every church which I've ever attended, that paying the school tax on my property is the "Christian" and 'citizen' duty....when the schools will not teach or support the truth of the Bible or the home. If they must teach evolution theories, then they should be required to teach all theories of beginings.... at least as supported by the demographics of creeds within their community. If a child is mistreated and exposes it then it should be investigated: But it is not the purpose of the school to turn children into tale tattlers and spies in the home and to teach them to distrust their parents, who God set in authority over them.

    It is discouraging that my taxes go to pay for sex education which was developed upon the false philosophies of such pedophiles as Kinsey, who paid for and participated in developing his own data. Our children are robbed of the innocence which they should have until their physical and psychological development catches up for a need to know the facts of life. The walls of modesty and mystery have been broken down so openly between the sexes, its hard to blush anymore: It kills the normal sensitivity of desire and disturbs the natural influences causing many to seek the exotic in the belief of restoring that spark which so much openness has removed from intimancy. I donot approve the way homosexuality is openly promoted as an acceptible alternative lifestyle, nor the way our children are loosing and devaluing the purity of their bodies to relationships which are temporary and casual. I don't approve the heritage we've given them and the problems they and their offspring will face; The world we've fashioned for them and the debt which will either impoverish or enslave them.

    I do not approve the way my income has been reduced to pay for programs like planned parenthood; the federal governments intrusion into the schools of my community; the grants which promote socialize studies/ degrees/ research which is designed to break down the barriers of individual thinking and mold us into tolerant ginea pigs of every persuasion; the grants which support arts and science--falsely so called-genetic research into adulturation of the genetic forces which God designed to separate the species..... and on and on. I donot agree with the social programs which expand disproportionately, the dependance on the government for employment and the dependance on government to meet the expanding needs. It is a fact that once a 'need' is identified and government moves to meet it..... more needs are created.....not less. It is not the American people who are the theives nearly as much as the leaders who tell us we are helpless, needy, and fearful, and must share our means for the promises they give and cannot keep. I do hold the church responsible for moral leadership and teaching us the correct attitude towards government: Respect for authority does not mean we shouldn't question that authority when it strays from morality or justice or truth: Taking from one to give to another is stealing and supporting government in these actions.... no matter how benign we think it to be..... is unscriptual and unconstitutional and is foolish to believe it solves the problems of people who are not equal in abilities, ambition, or acceptance of personal responsibilities.

    Okay......rant over. i'm calm again!
     
    #18 windcatcher, Jul 29, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 29, 2008
  19. windcatcher

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    Several points I disagree with:

    The European colonist....including the British, brought their system of land ownership with them: The Indians had no concept of land ownership. The closest they came to it was conflict over hunting ground when game was scarce and food in short supply or raids upon other tribes or villages to steal food, hides, and sometimes people .....it was their way of expanding their strength and providing for their needs. Everyone justifies their own battles: Indians between Indians, and nations against nations.....whether or not ownership and land is a goal.

    I donot agree with your characterization of General George Washington. He was one of the humblest and unassuming characters in the founding of our nation. Most of the signers of the Declaration invested their lives and their wealth to a cause for justice and a government free of tyranny. Many of them lost everything they had. Gen. Washington led troups exposed to terrible weather and under equiped and short of rations. He prayed for his troops and for God's guidance. He exampled a discipline before his men: He understood and had compassion on a soldier breaking down: He disciplined those who cursed and swore and did not tolerate drunkeness: He included ministers in his ranks and encourage regular services and attendance whenever it was possible. He accepted the presidency with a guarded reluctance: He was mindful of the soveriengty of the British crown which the colonist had defeated and did not wish to emulate the monarchy rule over the people.

    Yes, no doubt, there were ambitious motives in the occupation, claim, and use of land: Laying claim to the 13 colonies as states of the new union was one way of denying the British crown's claim of ownership, and establishing boundaries which were then necessary to defend by the new government. (BTW, we're the only country of the British Empire which succeeded. Few realize it, but the Bristish Crown still has sovereign claim over 1/6th of the land of the earth! It's collectively called the UK.) BTW, an interesting study would be..... a study of George Washinton's education. It is amazing what children in his day could learn without the inhibiting formal school system of today! And by most accounts, General George Washington was of average intelligence....not a candidate for MENSA.
     
  20. windcatcher

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    The French and Indian War, also called the Seven Years' War, occurred in 1754-1760.

    The concern of the British-American colonist, at the time, concerned trade, though there were also other concerns:
    Washington's involvement in the conflict:
    Of additional interest to the conflict was:
    The outcome noted here:
    Yes, I will grant you have a point that there was an economic interest involved.
    Further more, I confused your reference to the crown, King George, with then Major George Washington......

    Please accept my apologies for jumping the gun.


    If all of this supports the premise of the title on this thread, that Americans are theives: Can we find any defense that we have not presented a case proving in large part the fallen human condition ........universal!

    The cure is in the heart of man if and when he turns to God:

    Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
    Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)

    Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

    Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

    Rom 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

    Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

    Jhn 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:


    Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.


    Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


    Jhn 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


    Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


    Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
    Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
    Act 26:20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and [then] to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

    Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
    Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

    Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
     
    #20 windcatcher, Jul 29, 2008
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