Are some verses more authoritative than others?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by canadyjd, Aug 5, 2006.

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Are the Words of Jesus more authoritative than the words of Paul and others?

  1. Yes, the words of Jesus are more authoritative.

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  2. All scripture is equally inspired, therefore equally authoritative.

    24 vote(s)
    85.7%
  1. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    This is a question about the authority of scripture. Do you believe the words of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, and in Acts, to be more authoritative than the words written in the letters of Paul and the others?
     
  2. PastorSBC1303

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    No, they are not more authoratative.
     
  3. TaterTot

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    no, I do not believe that
     
  4. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Ditto. No they are not.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  5. Pipedude

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    God's words are God's words, no matter who spoke or penned them. Even then, "love thy neighbor" is more authoritative than "greet one another with a holy kiss" (yukko!) But it's not because of who said it.
     
  6. Baptist Believer

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    The words of Jesus are only more authoritative in the sense that He is the fullest revelation of God to humankind, so all scripture should be interpreted through Him.

    For instance, since Paul clearly claimed that he was a disciple of Jesus Christ, we only properly interpret Paul's writings when we understand the teachings and practice of Jesus.

    Paul does not contradict Jesus and Jesus does not contradict Paul... although there are many who ignore the teachings of Jesus and try to interpret Paul based upon their church background and personal experiences instead of the context of being a disciple of Jesus, as Paul was.

    If Jesus is truly God incarnate, then we should take everything He says very seriously and interpret all of His additional communication (the rest of scripture) through the revelation He provides.
     
  7. Rex77

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    No, but maybe more appicable to us.
     
  8. Joseph_Botwinick

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    Since Jesus is truly God, then all Scriptures are inspired by him and his written Word.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  9. LeBuick

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    Anyone ever hear of Apostolic Authority? That is where this thinking comes from.

    Basically it says were as most of the OT was divinely inspired, the epistles were written under "Apostolic Authority" as opposed to Divine Authority.

    Compare 1 Cor 7: for instance

    6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment
    10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

    In verse 6 Paul says these are not the words of the Lord, but are the words of Paul. Not in verse 10 he says this is not Paul anylonger but the Lord. The thought is that it can't be divinely inspired if Paul prefaces it with this is Paul speaking.

    Apostolic Authority is basically defined as the Authority the original 12 apostles had to clarify doctorine, settle disputes etc... 1. Based on them being taught directly by Christ and 2. their position as being the ones who started or planted those early Churches. We are said to accept or "surrender" to this Authority as part of of our creed where we say something to the effect of "we believe all scripture to be true etc..."

    This was later expounded by the Pentecostals and Mormons and you might say it philosiphy is used by the upper clergy in the RCC.

    I have over simplified it but if you google Apostolic Authority I'm sure you will see plenty on it. You will also find plenty of references where Paul states his Authority is that of an Apostle.
     
  10. El_Guero

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    I gotta problem with your question.

    Are the Words of Jesus more inspired or less inspired? No, the Holy Spirit gives the pneuma.

    Are the Words of Jesus more authoritative - now that is a can of worms. On the surface I will say no with a caveat - what do you really mean by authoritative?
     
  11. Baptist Believer

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    You're right.

    But I'm making a point about interpretation, which would seem to be the only reason to ask the original question... The teachings and practices of Jesus have the interpretive authority.
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    No, but I think you should always use what Jesus taught as a reference and if the other scriptures don't square with what Jesus said then you got it wrong. Such as, Apostles Pauls epistles according to Apostle Peter are hard to understand and some will read them to their own destruction. :smilewinkgrin:
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    All Scripture has interpretive authority. What you just promoted is a liberal interpretive theory that was and still is a controversy. The SBC removed the words "Jesus as the final authority in interpretation" from the BFM for this very reason. Liberal theologians used this to discount the parts of the Bible they didn't like (namely the teachings of Paul). Folks like Campolo and "Red Letter Christians" still practice this interpretive heresy.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. El_Guero

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    Joseph

    You tell your wife that you got her some flowers just because you love her, and then you two go to the store and the clerk says, "Joseph is so thoughtful and you are so special to love a man that gets you flowers just because they were cheap. I hope I will find a woman that good!"

    You got sunk.

    Can you show me from before the vote, where this BFM statement was publically claimed as heresy - your words.

    I still would like to know what reason(s) were the 'correct' reasons for revising the BFM. I don't want any of that Baptist Standard political journalism - I want the official reason(s).
     
  15. El_Guero

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    Canadyjd,

    Would you define authoritative?

     
  16. Joseph_Botwinick

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    I did not state that the BFM was changed because it, in and of itself, was heresy. It was because of the liberal abuse of the statement that it was changed. If you are interested in the kind of thinking that led to the change, just google the words "Red Letter Christians" and you should be able to cipher it for yourself.

    Here is a good article I found that shows some good examples of why the statement was changed within the SBC:

    Link

    Campolo discusses an even more recent example of how liberal heretics use this idea of the authority of Jesus over the authority of the Bible to pit Scripture against Scripture in his recent article in Beliefnet about Red Letter "Christians" in which he encourages us to live out the words of Christ while ignoring the rest of the Bible. His major error, of course, is that by pitting the words of Paul or anyone else against the Words of Christ, he is explicitly denying the inspiration of all Scripture by Christ, who is God. It is heresy and needs to die a quick death among Church doctrine.

    Link

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #16 Joseph_Botwinick, Aug 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2006
  17. jesnipes

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    The Bible answers this question in 1 Timothy 3:16:
    "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching,
    rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"
    It is the application that varies. For example, as Christians we are not required to present the sacrificies of the OT. ​
     
  18. blackbird

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    The whole of the Bible is authoritative

    The whole of the Bible is "God breathed"

    The whole of the Bible is Jesus talking!!! Both black and red letters are the letters of Jesus!!
     
  19. Ransom

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    Do you believe the words of Jesus, as recorded in the Gospels, and in Acts, to be more authoritative than the words written in the letters of Paul and the others?

    Nope. By whose authority did Paul and the others write their letters? Jesus' authority, of course.

    Additionally, it is Jesus himself who authoritatively certifies the Old Testament as the words of God and interprets its significance for the Church. One way or another, it all comes back to Jesus.
     
  20. LeBuick

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    I do believe in all scriptures being true so don't take this wrong.

    You are saying the epestiles were written via Jesus Authority. Is this different from being inspired or directed by Jesus? When Man does anything (even for God), do you believe he puts a bit of himself in their also?

    An example of what I'm asking, there was a recent thread on Baptizm. We all have the same command but reading that thread makes you realize how different we each execute that command.
     

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