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Are Symbolic external Symbols a matter of Fellowship?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by The Biblicist, Dec 2, 2016.

  1. The Biblicist

    The Biblicist Well-Known Member
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    Some have argued that God does not make violation of symbolic ordinances a matter of fellowship. Some have argued that as long as a person's heart is right, God overlooks their perversion of external forms and therefore so should we. For example, Paedbaptists pervert the external form of baptism.

    First, lets define the divine purpose for external symbols. A symbol is a visible form precisely designed to convey a truth. For example, the tabernacle and all of its furniture and offerings were symbols and God demanded that the external forms be adhered to precisely as given or the result may be DEATH. Why? Because perversion of the visible form perverted the truth it was designed to convey. In this case, perversion of the visible form of the tabernacle, its furniture, its operations, and its ordinances perverted the truth of the salvation,thus "another gospel." It makes no difference if the heart of the person(s) perverting the symbol is sincere or not as the same consquence occurs - the form is perverted and thus the truth the form was designed to convey is perverted.

    Baptism and the Lord's Supper are the two GOSPEL ordinances administered by the church. They are not GOSPEL ordinances in the sense they convey saving grace or literal salvation, but because they are SYMBOLS of salvation and therefore their precise Biblical form conveys THE TRUTH of salvation. When their precise Biblical form is perverted so is the truth that this form was designed to convey.It makes no difference if the heart of the person(s) perverting the symbol is sincere or not as the same consquence occurs - the form is perverted and thus the truth that the form was designed to convey is perverted.

    I believe God does break fellowship over abuse of external symbols even though the heart of the person perverting the form may be sincere.

    1. David and the ox cart worship - 1 Chrom. 13 - Both David, and "all of Israel" as well as the one driving the cart were all sincere in their worship but God refused their worship and broke fellowship with them by killing the man who was sincerely attempting to save the ark from being capsized.

    2. Moses and striking the rock - 1 Cor. 10:1-4 - Moses was very sincere in his action of striking the rock but God refused him entrance into the promised land which was a type of heaven because he violated a type of the gospel.

    3. Corinthians in violating the Lord's Supper - 1 Cor. 5, 10, 11 - Some were sincere in their belief that the idols food was offered unto were not real but they were still fellowshipping with demons and God would accept their worship at the Lord's table because of it. Others did not examine themselves and took of the Supper unoworthily and were killed by God. Regardless of the heart motives, God broke fellowship over the abuse of external symbols.

    Some quote God's word to Samuel that God looks upon the heart rather than the outward appearance, and so just as long as the heart is sincere the outward appearance does not matter.

    'Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart.' - 1 Sam. 16:7


    That is true when we are talking about the outward PHYSICAL appearance of a person, but that is not true with regard to worship as worship "MUST" not only be sincere "in Spirit" but externally accurate in form "in truth." No doubt the Corinthian worship may have been sincere but sincerely wrong and God broke fellowship with them over their external form of worship as "God is not the author of confusion" or of disobedience.

    Some quote God's word in 2 Chronicles 30:18-20. '"May the good LORD provide atonement for everyone who prepares his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he is not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary." And the LORD listened and healed the people.'

    However, let us look at this text placed back in its proper context:

    15 Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the second month: and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of the LORD.
    16 And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.
    17 For there were many in the congregation that were not sanctified: therefore the Levites had the charge of the killing of the passovers for every one that was not clean, to sanctify them to the LORD.
    18 For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good LORD pardon every one
    19 That prepares his heart to seek God, the LORD God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.
    20 And the LORD listened to Hezekiah, and healed the people.



    It would seem that the individuals were supposed to sanctify themselves by the head of each house offering a lamb for their individual family and individually receiving the blood from the priests to sanctify them, but the circumstances were so rushed that they did not have time to do that, so the priests offered up the sacrifices in their behalf (v. 17) without the individual participation of the head of each family.So it was not that they came before God unsanctified as the Priests acted in their behalf but they had not done it as prescribed by the law.
    .
    Therefore, it is not because they did not understand what the Law required, it was because providentially they were hindered from obeying it due to the circumstances. Furthermore, they realized they were in error but COULD NOT HELP IT, not due to ignorance but due to the lack of time to obey it. Furthermore, they were aware they were in error and were repentant but there was nothing they could do about it.

    Supposedly,this has been given as example for paedobaptists and their abuse of baptism, and according to this reasoning, since their hearts are sincere God accepts their pouring and sprinkling as baptism.

    However, the analogy is false! Paedobaptists are not circumstantially prevented from observing baptism scripturally, neither are they repentant for their perversion of it. Moreover, Paedobaptist ministers are not ignorant of the meaning of baptizo but repress it due to their unbiblical traditions. So this analogy between 2 Chron. 30:18-20 and Paedbaptism is false.

    If paedobaptists were circumstantially hindered from being baptized (as the theif on the cross) then the analogy would apply. If they were repentant and when circumstancs permitted then they would seek immersion and not continue in disobedience. However, paedobaptist ministers are not ignorant of the true meaning of baptizo, nor are they repentant, nor are they circumstantially hindered from being obedient. They willfully continue in their disobedience because they are DECEIVED by false doctrine.

    On the other hand, we who know the truth, cannot have a sincere heart and openly receive them into "church" fellowship when we know there is no such thing in the Scriptures as a church consisting of members of unimmersed infants and believers. Nor can we with a sincere heart before God accept them as a "church" when we know the Great Commission is given only to a church of immersed beleivers that are like faith and order with Christ's gospel, baptism and faith and practice. We have no authority to accept what God's Word both in precept and example repudiates.

    They may preach the gospel with their mouth, but they repudiate the gospel and preach "another gospel" by their pouring and sprinkling of believers, and wholly repudiate the gospel by applying even immersion to unregenerate infants. Their whole constitution as a congregation willfully includes unregenerate infants into the membership perverts the "body of Christ" as a metaphor. The purpose of a metaphor is to convey REPRESENTATION and their whole constitution as a metaphorical body of Christ MISREPRESENTS Christ.

    True churches NEVER receive into their membership anyone who does not profess true salvation. To accept Paedobaptist churches into "CHURCH" fellowship is to participate and approve of what neither can be found in Scriptures, but what both precept and examples of Scripture repudiate. Although we can have INDIVIDUAL fellowship with anyone who professes the true gospel, we cannot have "CHURCH" fellowship with entities that scripture denies can be a church by both precept and example and who pervert the gospel of Christ by their very act of constitution as a church.

    God does break fellowship with regard to the perversion of his symbols or external ordinances.
     
    #1 The Biblicist, Dec 2, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2016
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do they teach and preach that we are saved by Grace alone fait alone, thru the merits of Christ alone, or not?
     
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