Are The Specifics of Modesty Given In The Scripture

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Bro Tony, Jun 7, 2006.

  1. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony
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    In another thread about mixed swimming the issue of modesty has come up.

    Do the Scriptures give specific standards of modesty?

    Are the standards of modesty cultural? ie..modesty in middle east vs US

    Does the Bible teach that ladies in slacks or shorts is immodest?

    Is it immodest for a man to go without a shirt?

    Is modesty situational? ie...depending on where you are and who you are with.

    Just some food for thought. Let's keep the discussion about the issue and not about individuals.

    Bro Tony
     
  2. KeithS

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    I don't know whether it is food for thought or fuel for the fire, but...I believe the Supreme Court defines "decency" within the confines of a subjective standard promoted by the community. Unfortunately, I think many Christians believe this is how Scripture defines modesty.

    Bro. Tony, I will be the first to admit that I do not know the answer. This is a conundrum that has vexed me more than once, but I usually know when I have personally crossed the line in either thought or deed and must repent.
     
  3. Milady

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    In Proverbs 7:10 it says.....[10] And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot, and subtil of heart.
    This indicates that there is a way to wear clothes to look like a harlot, or like a lady.
    Anything else is personal. what you wear, according to what you think God asks of you. My Sisters-in-law all agree that it is immodest of them to wear pants, period. BUT, I have felt that God has not placed that on my heart, and wear pants on a regular basis. The rest is up to the individual. How modest is modest is up to you.

    Sorry, forgot to add something.

    The limits of your modesty, or lack therof, will be judged. God sees what is in your heart. We can't. i would just prefer that God be happy that I was modest. One thing is for sure. Modesty is like a line drawn in the sand, by God. I don't want to toe that line, but prefer to be behind it a bit.
     
    #3 Milady, Jun 7, 2006
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  4. DorthyMontine

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    Milady...it is interesting that you bring up the subject of women in pants/dresses. There was a time here in America that women wore dresses only. When and why did that change? Was it because of rebellion or enlightenment? Did their dress become more modest or immodest?
    Just some thoughts?
     
  5. Milady

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    Modesty in the dictionary.
    mod·est Pronunciation (mdst)
    adj.
    1. Having or showing a moderate estimation of one's own talents, abilities, and value.
    2. Having or proceeding from a disinclination to call attention to oneself; retiring or diffident. See Synonyms at shy1.
    3. Observing conventional proprieties in speech, behavior, or dress.


    I am not sure on that Dorthy. But I do know that if we followed that line of reasoning back to what they wore in the Bible times....... Guys would wear Togas, or some such similar thing. Times change. So does Fashion. As long as I am consciece clear in what I wear, it should not be a problem.
     
  6. AVL1984

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    Milady, you state that God has drawn a "line in the sand" concerning modesty. I cannot find that particular "line" anywhere. Care to point it out?

    I hear many preacher's spout every week about slacks on ladies, hair on men's faces, long hair on men, etc. Yet, they cannot or will not point to one certain standard for all that can be verified and justified by scripture. Who sets the standard?

    Are slacks on ladies scripturally wrong? I don't think so. I've never even been convicted about my sisters, mother or wife wearing slacks out in public unless they are so tight that they had to be poured in them...then it is quite obvious that they are not modest.

    Is long hair on a man wrong? Well, there's one verse in scripture that says it is, yet that particular scripture doesn't give a guideline on what the standard is. It has varied from generation to generation with no clear standard. So, who sets it? God didn't say "Men, though shalt wear thine hair far clipped above thine ear" now, did he? No....he didn't. Mine occasionally touches my ear, and sometimes even grows over it....do I feel convicted about the length? No..not in any wise.

    What about hair on men's faces? I hear many preachers ranting and raving about how "NO preacher who has a beard, moustache or goatee is going to preach from MY pulpit". Hmmm....strange...Seems like many of the church fathers had beards. And I venture to say that many of the disciples may well have had beards! MERCY!

    Don't go throwing Deut at me, because that's the standard response, and it's not even closely justified. If you do want to throw it up here...what other of those laws are you going to obey? Hmmm? Huh???? :saint:

    Just a little food for thought! :praise:
     
  7. thjplgvp

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    Modesty

    Would it be safe to say that modesty is dress and behavior that draws one to the conclusion that they honor Christ? That immodest dress and behavior draws one to the conclusion that they honor self.

    If you feel this is a legalistic response simply give an honest answer to this question. If Jesus were appearing in the flesh this afternoon at the beach or at the wedding reception, at the ranch or at any place you choose how would you dress for the occasion? What would be the criteria for choosing your clothing?

    Please list that criteria I am interested in seeing what it is and not in order that I might attack you but simply that I might have more understanding into the various answers that will come forth.

    I believe there are guidlines / principles given in scripture. For instance there is this passage "I made a covenant with my eyes why then should I think upon a maid" notice that the eyes and the mind are connected.
     
  8. thjplgvp

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    Modesty

    double post removed in edit
     
    #8 thjplgvp, Jun 7, 2006
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  9. PastorSBC1303

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    The problem I see is the subjective nature of standards such as this. I may look at a person and not see anything immodest about their dress, and you may look at it and have major problems.

    As I stated in the other post, if the Word of God has a standard on something then we need to stand firm on it with both feet. However, the standards of man need to be handled very carefully. And we should not hold our own standards up as for everyone.
     
  10. Milady

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    I never said I was holding a standard up for everyone (ie slacks/skirts) '
    the very definition of modest gives us an insight as to what we should do in out own lives.
    Who cares if skirts/slacks are worn. There are women I have seen that only wear skirts, that are so far above the knee, the bellybutton almost shows, on the other hand..... the modern pants for women are so low you see the underwear, and so tight you see the individual muscles.
    I stick to my statement of above...........
     
  11. thjplgvp

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    RE: Modesty

    SBC,

    That is why I asked for others to express their criteria for choosing their clothing. The same Holy Spirit that teaches all men should in fact be teaching the same things to all men. Would you agree with this statement? My self I learned sometime ago that I honor both my Lord and my wife by simply looking away While the Holy Spirit did not teach me to look away he did in fact through scripture enlighten me not to indulge in those things that bring the flesh to the forefront. Hence my log in name whatsoever things are true, honest, just, pure, lovely, and of a good report if there be any virtue if there be any praise think on these things. thjplgvp

    The nature of my post is simply to provoke thought and not judgment.

    Titus 2:11-12 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

    :type:
     
  12. Milady

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    Also, the topic is.......ARE THE SPECIFICS OF MODESTY GIVEN IN THE SCRIPTURE
    quit attacking me/my beliefs, and look it up in the scripture. I found something.I believe I am doing what is right FOR ME. So did thjplgvp. Is everyone else going to let it end there?? or ar you going to try to find out for yourselves???
     
  13. PastorSBC1303

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    Why are there so many different standards? Who is right and who is wrong?

    If the Holy Spirit has a standard for all of us to abide by and He teaches us all the same standard, then what is it and who has it?
     
  14. PastorSBC1303

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    No one is attacking you or your beliefs. This is a discussion board, so we are discussing the topic.

    If you would rather us not discuss your post, then don't post.
     
  15. Milady

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    Again I ask, why not look it up yourself??? You can argue with me till you are blue in the face, but until you see for yourself what God says, we will never get through this discussion.
     
    #15 Milady, Jun 7, 2006
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  16. thjplgvp

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    RE: Modesty

    SBC asked, “Why are there so many different standards?”

    All I have in that regard is my opinions and they are worth the same as yours or anyone else’s opinion. You are asking for an objective standard which I do not believe is stated in scripture. This does not mean I do not have a standard nor does it imply we should not expect believers to abide by a standard. We are to be distinctly different from the world this clearly implies a difference in dress, thought, in mannerisms etc. Will these differences be the same the world over? Not a chance. Does that mean everyone is free to practice personal liberty without biblical guidelines or standards? I don’t think you would agree with that for most certainly you have standards within your church and your family and each of those guidelines/standards are in place to protect your church and your family from unwise influences, potential harm, and proven harm.

    Is modesty to be a guideline/standard? Can your neighbor strip his or her clothing off and come over to your home and have some relaxing fellowship with the preacher, his wife and family? I can see your grin, :smilewinkgrin:
    it ain’t happening. Why not? You have standards of dress that also have limits of tolerance built into them called modesty. Your standards of modesty protect you, your wife and your children and they are established by the mutual consent of your wife. Standards of modesty with in the church are designed to do the same and are established by leadership to protect the membership from unwise influence, potential harm and proven harm. Within those guidelines there is a consensus in leadership of what modesty is.

    I am simply asking what was the criteria used in their determining their standard of modesty or your standard of modesty? If we are led by the Spirit of God there should be some constants even when taking into consideration the obvious difference in cultures, religious back grounds etc.


    thjplgvp :type:
     
    #16 thjplgvp, Jun 7, 2006
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  17. Sister Robin

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    One of my favorites:

    Pvbs 11:22

    As a jewel of gold in a swine's snout, so is a fair woman which is without discretion. (KJV)

    As a ring of gold in a swine’s snout, So is a lovely woman who lacks discretion. (NKJV)

    How much discretion, is what we can't seem to agree on.
     
  18. Brother Bob

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    Now that would be quite a dress, but I have seen some close but not that high! I know in times past when the mini skirt was popular that some young sisters had to be told to cover themselves who sat on the front seats.

    I have went by the following Scripture a lot through the years.

    1 Corinthians, chapter 8

    "9": But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

    "10": For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

    "11": And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

    "12": But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

    "13": Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
     
    #18 Brother Bob, Jun 7, 2006
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  19. NateT

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    Here is an honest question I have about modesty as it relates to this topic. Since we're talking about the standards of Scripture in relation to modesty (especially modest dress): Is it possible for a man or woman to be immodestly dressed while in the privacy of their spouse?
     
  20. Brother Bob

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    I don't think so. Just my opinion. At least I sure hope not.:laugh:
     

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