Are there Apostles today?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by tamborine lady, Oct 25, 2005.

  1. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady
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    [​IMG]

    That's my question. Are there Apostles still here on earth today?

    When Jesus called the twelve, at first He called them disciples, and then at the end, they were called Apostles.

    So I was wondering if there are still Apostles today, and if so, what is their function.

    If there aren't any, when did they cease to be?

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam
     
  2. Matt Black

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    Depends which denomination you ask...

    Catholics, Orthodox and Anglicans will tend to say that their bishops are kind of apostles in that they are 'spiritually descended' from the orginal Twelve. Some charismatics such as Restorationists will, as their name suggests, tell you that God has restored the Office of Apostle to the Church today and that they therefore have such beasts. Most other denominations will answer your OP question in the negative.

    [Spelling!!!]
     
  3. music4Him

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    According to 1 Corinthians there still should be....unless some say they fizzled out in 70 AD too? [​IMG]

    ~1Cor. 12:27-28
    Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
    28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
     
  4. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly
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    If by Apostle you mean someone who has hands laid upon them by someone who says that laying on of hands can trace unbroken back to the original 12, then I say, 'Who knows?" and "What difference does it make?" It's not magic.
     
  5. Bro. James

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    Yes, it depends...

    On the meaning of Mt. 16:18--if the mantle is given to Peter, an apostle, then there is an Apostolic Succession which makes the Holy See the rightful holder of the keys. If that be true, anyone outside the perview of the Vatican is apostate(defrocked Roman Priests of the 16th century, commonly called reformers. Most of these folks and their offspring were excommunicated until Vatican II. Now they are called: separated brethren, whatever that means.

    Back to Mt. 16: If the mantle of authority is given to the New Testament Assembly,as an institution, and the gates of hell would not prevail, then the Holy See is blind and unholy, with nothing of which to "reform".

    Then there are those who follow Joseph Smith Jr. Joseph claims to have been the one to restore the apostate Church of Jesus Christ and the Office of Apostle. If Joseph Smith is a true prophet, all religious connections prior to him are apostate. Only good Mormons are going to make it to the seventh heaven. It probably also helps to be a member of at the Blue Lodge.

    What if: the office of Apostle died with the individual Apostles; and the authority is vested in the New Testament Churches? Not many are willing to carry this matter to its logical conclusion.

    Choose wisely.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  6. Briguy

    Briguy
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    M4H, you poking fun at me? [​IMG]

    It's OK, I can take a joke. In fact, you deserve a laugh at my expense, because I have been getting a good chuckle from your theology for a long time ;) :D [​IMG] - just kidding. That was a pretty good come back though, don't you think?


    Seriously, No, the Apostles were a distinct group of 12. They were the foundation of the Church, see Eph (oops the verse slipped my mind. It is early in the book.) and see how they laid the foundation. Foundations as a rule are a different material then the rest of the structure. They are strong and able to bear a great load. So it was with the 12. Remember when Judas had to be replaced how it was an important process to get just the right replacement? There is no scripture saying that the Apostles made more apostles. The Apostles were given gifts that gave them the ability to perform "signs and wonders". No one can do "signs and wonders" by their own hands today so there are no more Apostles. They were extremely important and got the body of Christ started. God did equip a few others with special gifts as well, Paul being the most obvious.The signs and wonders were also foundational to the church, and gave the new Gospel message divine authority.

    In Christ,
    Brian
     
  7. music4Him

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    In all honesty and sincerely, no I wasn't poking fun at you and I am so sorry for it sounded or came across that way and I do apologize. BTW, we may not be on the same page on some doctrine issues, but I know one... thing we both love Jesus and want to serve Him. Agian I am sorry and apologize to any that my remark offended.

    Your sister in Christ,
    M4H "aka" ~Nancy
     
  8. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    One of the reasons I asked was that there are churches that believe there are Apostles today, and that they go about starting churches and getting them going and then turning that church over to the congregation, and help them get/elect another pastor and then move on and do it again.

    Has anyone else ever heard of this before?

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  9. Johnv

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    Here's my take: There were many disciples, but there were only 12 apostles.

    There are no apostles today. There are, however, many disciples. I believe the term referred only to the twelve. By the time they died, the need for apostles had ceased. I know that some entertain a theory of apostolic succession (that, in effect, pastors and ministers are the apostles of today). I don't discount that possibility.
     
  10. Briguy

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    Nancy, no need to apologize. I thought what you said was funny. I was afraid my humor, that was directed at you, was going to be over the top. Anyway, I believe too, that we both love Jesus!!

    Your brother,
    Brian
     
  11. music4Him

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    Ok... This is where I stumble with the 12 Apostles thing....
    You had the oringinal 12 then Judas betrayed Jesus and took his life (or was Judas even concidered an apostle concidering he didn't witness the resurrection of Jesus?), then the Apostles cast lots and they fell on Matthias to take the 12 seat as Apostle, but then later along comes the Apostle Paul.

    *Mathias become an Apostle*
    ---------------------------
    Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
    Act 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.
    Act 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
    Act 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
    Act 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
    Act 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
    Act 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,
    Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
    Act 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.
    Act 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen,
    Act 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place.
    Act 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.


    *Paul says that he is called to be an Apostle
    -----------------------------
    Rom 1:1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    Rom 1:2 (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    Rom 1:4 And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
    Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
    Rom 1:6 Among whom are ye also the called of Jesus Christ:


    *Then there is the scripture that I already posted above. 1Cor. 12:27-28 where Paul is giving the church of Corinth instruction as how the church and the offices thereof ought to be. Paul names Apostles as one of the offices in church so is this office of Apostle that Paul speaks of differnt from the twelve? Why would he say it if there was only to be 12 Apostles?
     
  12. FWBPastor

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    Rev. 21:14 states that were only 12 apostles, as each of the 12 foundations of New Jerusalem are named for these 12 men.

    Bill
     
  13. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    Rev 21-14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

    Could it be that the 12 mentioned here are the first of many?? And have a special place because they walked with Jesus?? Because as Music has demonstrated, Paul was an Apostle and the 11 chose Mathias to take Judas place. So that makes 14!


    :rolleyes: :confused:

    Peace,

    Tam
     
  14. music4Him

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    Tam~ the jury is still out as for me to if Judas was an apostle. Concidering what Peter said in Acts and the way the bible reads Judas didn't witness the resurection.

    Act 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.

    But even still if Judas wasn't..... in doing the math we have 13 including Paul. [​IMG]

    **But hold up what about Sosthenes......it seems that Paul is saying he is? Maybe I'm reading it wrong?

    1Cor 1:1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
    1Cor 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

    BTW, Paul also concidered himself an apostle of the Gentiles? So how many apostles can Gentiles have?

    (...and after ya'll answer that last question I want to know how many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop! [​IMG] Not poking no fun at nobody but the Gentile apostle question sounded like the tootsie pop comercial or maybe a light bulb question? :D
     
  15. Matt Black

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    They would tend to be the Restorationist/ house church charismatic denominations to which I earlier referred eg: (in the UK, don't know about the US) Pioneer, New Frontiers International, Covenant Ministries, Salt and Light and (possibly) Vineyard
     
  16. tamborine lady

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    [​IMG]

    It will be interesting also to see whose name will be there in place of Judas.(Rev-21-14)

    Will it be Mathias or Paul? Because the 11 elected Mathias, but then Paul comes along and says he is an Apostle!

    Hmmmmm

    Tam
     
  17. jw

    jw
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  18. music4Him

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    Any takers on this question? What about Sosthenes was he an apostle?
     
  19. Snitzelhoff

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    He could be saying that he (Paul) is an apostle and Sosthenes is a "brother." At least, that's how it reads to me. However, there is another passage, in I Thessalonians. This is interesting.

    "Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians... We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention to you in our prayers"--I Thessalonians 1:1-2

    Now, keep reading and you'll see:

    "Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ."--I Thessalonians 2:6

    He never changes the subject of the "we" in the first verse. In other words, the "we" in "when we might have been burdensome as the apostles of Christ" seems to refer back to the "we" of 1:2, which would imply that Timothy and Silvanus (Silas?) were apostles.

    Thoughts?

    Michael
     
  20. Bro. James

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    Apostle: one sent out with a message.

    Jesus said,"I have chosen you twelve and one of you is a devil". Judas was replaced. There is no evidence the office of apostle ever went past the original twelve. There was something special about Paul. That he had a special unction as the original twelve is not revealed. He certainly was "one sent out with a message".

    Man loves to make heirarchies so he can be a respecter of persons. Jesus established His Assembly--He is the head. The assemblies have pastors and deacons. An assembly can function without either of those offices being filled.

    All of the ecclesiastical heirarchies are strictly man-made, including apostle.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     

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