Are these parallel passages?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by percho, May 19, 2015.

  1. percho

    percho
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    A. And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: Rev. 12:1,2,5

    Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh; Romans 1:3

    B. Before she travailed, she brought forth; before her pain came, she was delivered of a man child. Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? Isa. 66:7, pt, of 8

    Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the {birth} pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Acts 2:24
    And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: Romans 1:4

    C. Therefore
    Is Jesus the Christ, the man child, spoken of as having been naturally born of woman, involving travail and pain and also having been born apart from travail and pain from the dead, by resurrection?

    Was Jesus, who had been born of woman, really the firstborn from the dead Col. 1:18? Will Jesus, when we receive the redemption of the body Rom 8:23, manifested as sons of God 8:19, then be the firstborn of many brethren 8:29 so born?

    Being Jesus is the only man who has been born of woman, died and has been raised from the dead, is the following verse relative to him, yet shall also be relative to us at the last trump when we as joint heirs, inherit the kingdom of God?

    1 Cor 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; < Rom 1:3 and afterward that which is spiritual. <Rom 1:4
     
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    You already know my take on this so I'll refer you back to the other commentary if you have forgotten it.



    No, Scripture does not present Christ as being "naturally born, but supernaturally born of a virgin.

    Her virginity is seen in the text despite the attempt of some to deny this and make "virgin" mean simply a young maid.


    Luke 1:34-35

    King James Version (KJV)

    34 Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

    35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.



    Just a few things we would have to say, if virginity is not the case, is that the Angel was lying about how she would be found with child and that Mary herself was lying by saying she did not/had not know/n a man.


    You answer the question yourself:



    All resurrections prior to Christ's are physical resurrections only. "Firstborn" is not just a reference to rank, but refers to the fact that only Christ has been raised in a resurrected body.

    This is a new doctrine in Scripture when it occurs.


    Not sure what the tag "so born" is a reference to, but Scripture is clear that Christ is the Firstborn from (ek, out of) the dead, and the first-fruits.


    No, not as it applies to mankind.

    Christ is God manifest in the flesh and is the Eternal Son of God. In regards to the Incarnation it applies but that does not mean that the Son has a staring point in time as the Messiah does.


    God bless.
     
  3. percho

    percho
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    Do the scriptures speak of God sending his Son into the world as a flesh and blood man through birth birth through the virgin woman, Mary,

    Do the scriptures state that same Son, Jesus died and was dead for three days also spoken of as being three days and three nights?

    Do the scriptures also state that God the Father raised this same Jesus from the dead Gal 1:1, to die no more Rom 6:9 and that his flesh did not see corruption Acts 2:31 and no more to return to corruption Acts 13:34 and in doing so Jesus the Son of God became the firstborn from the dead Col 1:18 & Rev 1:5?

    Is that two births or not? Was one through travail and pain and was the other without travail and pain, according to scripture?

    Do we need to be born from the dead as he was born from the dead in order to inherit the kingdom of God?

    When we are conformed to his image will we then be born from the dead therefore making him, Jesus the firstborn, of many brethren?

    Is the man child of Isa 66:7 Jesus?
    A man child from whence, as the seed of David or as the declaration as the firstborn from the dead?
     
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C
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    Percho, as mentioned in a previous thread some time ago, Christ was not in need of regeneration. Resurrection from the dead in glorified form is not regeneration, but resurrection.

    Regeneration takes place in the natural body, hence the tern new birth. It is not physical, but spiritual, and those that die in their sins cannot be regenerated.


    God bless.
     
  5. percho

    percho
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    And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. 1 Cor 15:17

    Was life to the natural body of Christ necessary for his blood to wash away our sins?

    If Christ be the heir of God and we joint heirs with him, will the redemption of the body, whether we be dead or alive, be necessary in order for us to inherit the kingdom of God?

    Is it necessary for us to be conformed to his resurrected body?

    Is there a difference between the pre death body of Jesus and the post resurrected body of Jesus?

    Is this a true statement concerning Jesus the Christ?
    Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. Romans 6:9

    Was his resurrection from death to life, absolutely necessary to our sins being washed away?
     

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