"The stallions hang out in bars; the geldings hang out in church." David Murrow. Mark Driscol said the church has produced "a bunch of nice, soft, tender, chickified church boys. … Sixty percent of Christians are chicks," he explains, "and the forty percent that are dudes are still sort of chicks." I think this is true as unpleasant as it may make men who are "chickified" themselves feel. I grew up in a rough crowd. Most of the men I grew up with would find this Joel Osteen type ministry to be repulsive. And not just the substance of it, but the STYLE of it. I know most of you would be against the substance but some of you seem to embrace the style. Men who pull wire, hang sheet rock, roof houses, plow fields, ride horses, lay pipe, hang shingles, pave roads, come home to Monday Night Football and a few beers, rent a UFC pay-per-view every once in a while, etc... tend to find Christian men who mince words and speak sweetly to be effeminate. I have had the greatest success looking them in the eye and telling them, "Look man- you walk on God's earth, you breath his air. It is wickedness for you to refuse to serve him." You'll reach them by being REAL a whole lot better than by being "sweet". We wonder why our churches are full of mostly women- it is the utter repudiation of manliness like that that so many do on this very board often.