Arguments for a Post Trib. Rap.

I think this is reading into the text something that is not there.

 

I'm not one who believes Christ descended into Hell to preach to the spirits there. That should be it's own thread, though

I do know that Christ told the one thief that he would be with Christ that very day in paradise. Paradise cannot mean anything other than Heaven, or the thief on the cross tagged along with Jesus in Hell.

 

I think both positions are correct. IF Jesus could take Captive those Captive, or preach to the spirits in the earth and take them up to the paradise (heaven above), it tells me Jesus even as a spirit (in the 3 days) could move between below and above as He desired. So Jesus could take the thief on the cross to paradise above; or below then above (today you'll be with Me in paradise), then/or preach to the spirits below (in the 3 days), take them above..etc There is no reason to think it has to be either one or the other. We know some of what He did in those 3 days, in whatever order, its not the end of the world.

Darren

 

I agree again webdog. A lot of people don't understand that passage from Peter.

 

It settles nothing. The body was in the grave for three days and three nights, nothing else.

 

Ok, so when did Abraham and those He took to paradise from Abraham's Bosom (where David was as well) actually end up in paradise (including the thief on the cross whom was supposed to be there the same day), before He rose from the dead after 3 days or when He ascended to the right hand of God the Father (some 40 days later I think from memory)? I don't see how anyone could be dogmatic about it.

Darren

 

In the first paragraph, the rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years were finished,

In the third pargraph, he said Daniel's resurrection occurred at the end of the trib,

but the end of the trib is the "First resurrection", when the unsaved dead lived not and remained dead until the thousand years were finished,

So how could Daniel's prophecy be at the end of the trib and first resurrection, if the shame and everlasting contempt "STAY DEAD" until the thousand years are finished????

The GWT is the "ONLY TIME" the unsaved come out of hell for Judgment, prior to the GWT, no unsaved are resurrected, only the "RIGHTEOUS".

The GWT is the "ONLY TIME", both "SHEEP (from the MK) and GOATS" appear "TOGETHER" for Judgment, prior to this, no goats are resurrected.

Every place the word resurrection is used, they are "back on the earth alive",

The "Rapture" is not called a "Resurrection" because they are "NOT" back on the earth, but go directly to heaven.

The "First Resurrection" is when the "BODY OF CHRIST" will be "Back on the earth, alive".

And it will occur "early in the morning of the "third day", (thousand year day), the time period in which we live.

http://i25.tinypic.com/1znaptj.jpg

Just two of the many ways the church will "Conform to his image".

 

That's weird, never heard of the 3 day thing. So many end times theories floating around, I can't keep up with them... :laugh:

Darren

 

With the rich man "in hell" and a "great gulf" between him and Abraham, which no one could cross,

I think it's pretty clear, Abraham's bosom was not 'in hell".

 

One prophecy can have a "DUAL" fulfillment/application, one "Spiritual" to cover Jesus first coming, and one "Literal" to cover his second coming.

"Preterist" believe the "Spiritual", the Church the "literal", few see
"both sides".

 

I didn't say Abraham's Bosom was hell. What I said was "paradise" the thing Paul visited is heaven, maybe not the throne of God heaven but heaven nonetheless. For Abraham to get to "paradise" or heaven, the place Jesus said the thief will go express service, Jesus has to take them/him there. Use whatever definitions or scriptures you like, all I know is (laymans terms) there is up and down and the guys on the down went up at some time which you are alluding to. I personally think think Jesus could have taken them up during the time His body was in the grave but its not a big deal to me, except for the fact of the thief was promised an express pass, same day service to heaven, how the thief got to heaven the same day I am happy to ask God when I get to heaven, if I care that much to ask.

Just to add, Jesus said the thief would be "WITH ME" in paradise. Jesus obviously was planning to be in Paradise as well, take it or leave it.

Darren

 

I was refering to people who said Jesus went to hell to preach, he didn't, Abraham's bosom was his destination.

Jesus told Mary not to touch him when he was first resurrected, he had not yet ascended, later he told Thomas to touch him,

Touching anything "unclean" made the person "unclean", Jesus's first priority as to present the "perfect sacrifice" (his body) to God, after that, he was free to do whatever.

Some OT saints were resurrected appeared in Jerusalem when Jesus died,

If Jesus didn't take the OT saints to heaven until he ascended to remain there, evidently, those resurrected remained on the earth until that time,

Scripture doesn't say one way or the other.

 

Again you aren't addressing the thief on the cross, I have no idea why. Its clear to me that Jesus could move around as a spirit, not like any normal spirit of a dead man stuck in Abraham's Bosom. Did the thief on the cross go to be with Jesus in paradise that same day or not? Paradise was not Abraham's Bosom otherwise Jesus would have said Abraham's Bosom.

Darren

 

Well we should get this thread back on track...(I'm happy with another thread dealing with the days following Christ's crucifixion.)

Anyhoo, my basic premise (the place of Christ notwithstanding) is that Scripture is clear that the first coming of Christ was from birth until ascension and that the second coming of Christ will be a bodily return.

I don't accept that Christ's resurrection is a second coming event or that there are is more than two arrivals of Christ in the prophecy or Scripture. Thus my argument for the historical premillenial view stands that the second coming of Christ is at the escaton.

 

The OT saints did not need to be resurrected to be taken up to heaven (from Abraham's Bosom), neither did Jesus need to be resurrected to go to heaven BUT that does not contradict the fact that Jesus rose bodily from the dead and futher "ascended" to heaven bodily to take His place on the throne at the right hand of God..

Darren

 

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Darren

 

Me4Him

In my post#30 I presented an excerpt from John Walvoors’s writings to illustrate the following statement in that same post:

In your post #48 you have erroneously attributed to me the excerpt I posted from Walvoord’s writings. There is nothing in Walvoords interpretation of the resurrections that I agree with. I want people on this thread and Forum to know that. I was simply quoting Walvoord to show the validity of the above statement by me.

There are only two resurrections in the Bible. the first was that of Jesus Christ. The second will be the general resurrection at the end of time as we know it consistent with John 5:28, 29.