Arminian Weaknesses reflect Calvinism

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by Van, Mar 31, 2011.

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  1. Van

    Van
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    The words in italics are partial quotes and paraphrases from “Arminian Articles of Remonstrance”

    Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional pre-selection of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.

    Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional pre-selection election of foreseen individuals foreseen to come to faith by their own free will.

    Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:

    1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)

    2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)

    3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)

    4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)

    5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born again.)

    In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.
    The biblical position is summarized as follows:

    1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God, and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).

    2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:5) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.

    3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
     
    #1 Van, Mar 31, 2011
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2011
  2. glfredrick

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    This is how this same discussion ended on the other forum where Van posted it:

     
  3. Iconoclast

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  4. The Archangel

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    You keep saying things like "God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God" which implies a disparity where none actually exists. But, perhaps more bewildering, is the use of 1 Peter 1:2 as a proof text, which shows up in many of your posts dealing with this particular subject matter.

    Please explain how you get "God chose the Word..." etc. from 1 Peter 1:2.

    The Archangel
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

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  6. ReformedBaptist

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    The OP summaries are given in full here http://www.apuritansmind.com/creeds/arminianarticles.htm

    The Synod of Dort Canons are here:
    http://www.reformed.org/documents/i...w.reformed.org/documents/canons_of_dordt.html

    I especially like Article 18:

     
  7. MB

    MB
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  8. MB

    MB
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    You must not have read this;
    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    oooop's you forgot.
     
  9. MB

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  10. MB

    MB
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  11. Van

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    How come no Arminians have posted but instead we get a boat load of non-germane misdirection?

    For example, did I say or suggest 1 Peter 1:2 demonstrates or supports that God chose the Word? Nope. This is just misdirection, rather than actually addressing what I said.

    Here is the actual sentence: God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2).

    And here is 1 Peter 1:2, [who are chosen] "according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, by the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to obey Jesus Christ, and be sprinkled with His blood; May grace and peace be yours in fullest measure."

    Question when did God reveal His foreknowledge of Lamb? See 1 Peter 1:20, which indicated "before the foundation of the world."

    If anybody wants to actually consider what I have said, rather than lob ad hominems, have at it.

    Lets consider the numerious misrepresentations presented to disparage me.

    Do I draw a distinction between before the foundation of the world and before creation? No. Do I draw a distinction betwen from the foundation of the world and before creation? Yes. Verses that use the phrase "before the foundation of the world" are referring to actions like the foreknowledge of Christ before creation. But verses that use the phrase, from the foundation of the world refer to actions that occur during the creation week or after the creation week. Calvinists try to say the Greek word "apo" means the same thing as "pro" but it is a fiction, simply making scripture to no effect. Words have meaning, and doctrine should be derived using that meaning, rather than deriving the meaning using the manmade doctrine.
     
  12. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Oh please.....:tear:
     
  13. ReformedBaptist

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    Moreover, the Synod earnestly warns the false accusers themselves to consider how heavy a judgment of God awaits those who give false testimony against so many churches and their confessions, trouble the consciences of the weak, and seek to prejudice the minds of many against the fellowship of true believers.
     
  14. Van

    Van
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    And the response? "oh please" and advocacy of the kind of thinking that gave us the dark ages. Who knew. :)
     
  15. Earth Wind and Fire

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    YES....show me some more of that California Whine...LOL:tongue3:
     
  16. Van

    Van
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    Yet another off topic post calculated to bury in twaddle any meaningful discuss of the flaws in Arminianism.
     
  17. ReformedBaptist

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    I reckon that I don't expect to have a meaningful discussion with anyone that hasn't read the Synod's response.
     
  18. Van

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    Fine, stop posting, the topic is Arminianism, not Calvinisms view of Arminianism.
     
  19. Earth Wind and Fire

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    ROLF, & if they were smart they would disappear from sight.....we Calvinists have already weighed in....their turn. Perhaps their too stunned to comment.....we shall see :smilewinkgrin:
     
  20. Iconoclast

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    mb...your responses indicate you are in over your head,and have no comprehension of the historic faith. Your lame attempts to respond,like your response to Archangel shows you do not understand what he said.Jn1 does not address his post
    I am sure you do not understand calvinism, the biblical basis of it, and your lack of biblical response demonstrates this to be the case.
     
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