Arminians make God the Author of Sin

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Andrew C Bain, Apr 30, 2005.

  1. Andrew C Bain

    Andrew C Bain
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    But without faith it is impossible to please God.(Heb11:6)
    Whatever is not of faith is sin(Rom14:23).

    Arminians say that their "holy spirit" dwells in the hearts of unbelievers, preparing their hearts, helping them to "make a decision" to follow Christ, and drawing them "closer to God's love". The Arminian affirms that their "holy spirit" helps unbelievers to learn to pray. Thus, the Arminian preacher urges his hearers that, "Right now, if you feel the Holy Spirit convicting you of your sins, then it is time for you to ask God to come into your life." Indeed, you will often hear Arminians confessing that, "Before I was saved I could feel the Holy Spirit touching my heart, making me interested in God, leading me to church, helping me read the Bible, and making me cry out to God."

    Yet Hebrews 11:6 and Romans 14:23 declare that unbelievers cannot please God. The deeds of those without faith are sinful and abominable in the sight of God. But what about Arminians, don't they teach that their "holy spirit" performs works through unbelievers? Correct. Arminians believe that their "holy spirit" performs works in unbelievers. Thus, the Arminian believes in a "god" where "god the holy spirit" causes an unbeliever to pray or seek after God, which "prayers" or "seeking" the Bible says are wicked. Without faith it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God; every prayer of the unconverted is not to the Just God and Savior of the Bible, for "How can they call on Him on whom they have not believed?"(Rom10). Every prayer of the unbeliever is merely a lust of the devil, for "the things that the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils."(1Cor10:20) Reader, let no Arminian delude you! The Arminian will lead you to believe in a "holy spirit" who works sin in the hearts of unbelievers, by making them pray and seek after God WITHOUT FAITH. Hearken not to any lost Arminian preacher! 100% of the thoughts and deeds of unbelievers are evil, yet, the Arminian preacher says that some of these thoughts and deeds are the works of the Holy Spirit. Thus the Arminians "holy spirit" CONTRIBUTES to the sin of the unbeliever, by causing those thoughts and deeds to occur, which God declares to be sin.

    All Arminians are lost. But what about true believers? True believers know that they were children and worshippers of the devil, and that only he -- the god of this world -- prevailed in their hearts until their conversion. True believers know that every thought, word and deed prior to their conversion was 100% evil, and they dare not say that the Holy Spirit worked in their hearts at this time, for this would be making the Holy Spirit the worker of evil. When God converts one of His elect, what does that person believe? This person will not be converted to Arminianism -- God does not feed believers poison -- but this person will know the truth. He will believe that by one man's disobedience many were made sinners and that by the obedience of One shall many be made righteous. The believer is assured that by nature all men are equally children of wrath and that by faith all who believe are children of God. All those blessed with the gospel know that it is only Christ's righteousness and atoning blood that saves them from hell. They hear Christ say, "I come to do your will, O my God ... you Law is within my heart,"(Psa40) "by which will (done by Him) we (who believe him to be the Son of God, who fulfilled His Father's Law) through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ, at once are sanctified ... for by one offering he has perfected for ever them who are sanctified."(Heb10). "We declare unto you glad tidings that God has raised Jesus Christ from the dead and by Him all who believe are justified from all the things from which you could not be justified by the Law of Moses."(Acts13). By that Law they were in all things condemned; therefore they are, now that they believe that Law fulfilled by Christ, in all things, justified in the sight of God, by the righteousness of Jesus imputed to them, when they believe Him to be raised from the dead. "And as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit"(Acts13). Every believer is personally convicted of these truths. This gospel doctrine is communicated and thoroughly ascertained to them, on the one hand, of sin and death, according to the manner of its entrance, reign and destruction; so also, on the other hand, the righteousness and life, according to the manner of its entrance and eternal reign by Jesus Christ the Lord.

    As sin and death were transferred and conveyed to me, without any agency or concurrence upon my part, from Adam, the figure or type of him that was to come, through the natural generation; so in like manner, righteousness and life, with the destruction of sin, all sin and death, as pertaining to me, are transferred and conveyed to me, without any agency or concurrence upon my part, by the glorious and eternally adored Antitype, Jesus Christ, (who is God over all, blessed for ever Amen,) through the faith or knowledge of Himself, freely given to me for it is His own gift and work, the spiritual regeneration, whereby I am born of God, a child of God, an heir of God, a joint-heir with Christ, a partaker for ever of Christ and all the benefits of redemption. Thus it is written in Romans 3, in immediate connection with the finished proof of all flesh being under sin and death, "But now without the Law, the righteousness of God", that is of Emanuel, God manifested in the flesh, "is manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the prophets, even the righteousness of God which is by the faith," that is, as explained in Heb 11, the evidence, discovery, knowledge or conviction, "of Christ to all and upon all them that believe, so there is no difference: for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God." So all that believe the apostolic record concerning that righteousness to be true, are justified freely by the love of God through the redemption that is in Jesus. "To declare at this time His righteousness, that He might be JUST, and the JUSTIFIER of Him who believes in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? Neither, but through a law of faith. Therefore we conclude, that a man is justified by faith," that is, the righteousness believed, called "faith" as being the object of faith, in opposition to all works whatsoever, in this business of justification, but the finished work of the Son of God, "without the deeds of the Law ... Then is the Law annulled through faith? Let it not be! But we establish the Law." Establish the Law, how? In the blood of God, in which it was fulfilled; sprinkled, that is to say manifested in the believer's conscience, by the Holy Spirit, and the spring of all our love, gratitude and obedience to God, and the source of all our peace and joy before God. So the Scr-ipture is fulfilled which says, "By the knowledge of Himself shall my righteous Servant justify many." Fulfilled I say, with regard to me in whom that knowledge or evidence is given.

    "And we preach the gospel to you, the promise made to the fathers, that this God has fulfilled to us, their children, raising up Jesus; as also it has been written."(Acts13). Now, the Resurrection of Christ from the dead, implies, that he was, thereby, declared to be the Son of God, with power, according to the Spirit of Holiness (Rom1:4). It also implies, that He, the promised Messiah, had fulfilled all righteousness; and that He was raised up, for a certain testimony, pledge, or token of assurance to all men, that His Father had accepted His now finished work, even the work of glorifying the Father, by becoming obedient to the death for the sake of His people, according as the Lord Himself had spoke, saying, "I have glorified You on the earth. I finished the work that You gave Me to do. And now Father, glorify Me with Yourself." (Jn17:4-5) "And by him all that believe"--What are they said to believe? Answer: those very glad tidings, that God raised Jesus from the dead. "By him all who believe," that is, hold those glad tidings to be true, of the Resurrection, for a matter of fact, understanding the meaning of the Resurrection, "ARE"--no intervention of acts of any kind, no space in between, no delay, no suspense, for even a moment, but instantaneously and at once are--"JUSTIFIED from all things that you could not be justified by the Law of Moses."

    It is a certain truth that there was a Law of Moses, and that I was accursed by it; then to me who believe God's testimony in these things, it is *equally certain* that God raised Jesus up again from the dead, in token of his having fulfilled the Law, and of His having borne away the curse of the Law, in His own body upon the cross. Moreover, it is *equally certain* that I who believe that fact of the Resurrection, to be just as God says, AM JUSTIFIED, by that very believed righteousness, which He accomplished. This righteousness is freely imputed to me, without any works, of any kind, being produced upon my part. Not even faith, or knowledge of this righteousness, is my act; but, as said before, the gift, the act, the work of God Himself in me; if so be, the causing of the light to shine out of darkness, and forming the eye to see that light, be the gift, the act, the work of God (according to Eph2:8, Col2:12, 2Cor4:6).

    Observe, here is my rock, I do not build my assurance upon the sand of a heated imagination, or strong presumptions of my own "marks of grace". But here I stand upon my rock, a truth which to eternity would stand firm as the basis of Jehovah's throne, whether I believed it or not; a truth, which now by grace I know to be *equally certain* as the existence of my God Himself. There is *no more certainty* that God created the worlds and that He raised Jesus from the dead, than that I will be saved. I saw neither of those two former events. If God's mere assertion does not satisfy me, I must expect no other evidence. I will expect none. I stand convinced. I am certain that Jesus is the Son of God; that God has raised Him from the dead, in testimony of His having fulfilled all righteousness. The Substitution has taken place, and therefore the debt is paid. Here is one certain truth planted by Jehovah's hand in my mind, "that God has raised up Jesus," upon which he has grafted this other certainty also, "that by Him all who believe are justified." The former, namely, the Resurrection of Jesus, cannot stand in my mind, as a truth, without the latter, namely my own personal justification by the work of the Son of God, which I believe. All true believers have this infallible promise that they will be saved, and they do not call God a liar, for they have the witness in themselves. But how another group of people think it to compliment God, by the doubts and fears concerning their salvation. These people are unregenerate for they call God a liar in his promise to save all believers.

    "The one believing in the Son of God has the witness in himself. The one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the witness which God has witnessed concerning His Son."(1Jn5:10)

    Andrew C. Bain
    http://www.Godnoliar.com
     
  2. BobRyan

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    If you have a quote from an Arminian saying
    "The Holy Spirit dwells IN The heart of unbelievers"
    ... then produce the quote please.

    Christ said "BEHOLD I STAND AT THE DOOR and KNOCK". The DRAWING of the Holy Spirit is NOT the Holy Spirit IN you -- it is the Holy Spirit DRAWING you and ENABLING you to choose.

    (If you need an Arminian quote - you can use that one).

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    This is true.

    It is also true that Calvinist evangelists USE the ARMINIAN Gospel INSTEAD of Calvinism because CAlvinist preaching to the lost - does not work!!

    Imagine a Calvinist saying to the lost

    Indeed while that IS the 'facts' of Calvinism's gospel it is NOT the way a Calvinist preacher would evangelize.

    Instead a Calvinist preacher goes DIRECTLY to Arminian mode saying to his audience "TOday if you harden not your heart! TODAY while it is still day CHOOSE Christ! Tomorrow may be too late! Why are you wating? Why wait another day? Choose to give your life to Christ TODAY"

    Etc

    Etc

    Etc

    And we all know it.

    Because frankly - Calvinism "doesn't work" as a form of evangelism.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

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    The Arminian never says that the lost state -- the condition of the lost "is pleasing to God".

    Your argument that "you must first be PLEASING to GOD and THEN you can repent" is silly.

    Since you were kind enough to quote Romans 10 -- perhaps you will be willing to admit to some details from Romans 10.

    It starts with the choice to confess and to believe NOT with salvation - NOT with the New Birth, NOT with the new creation -- but with the choice to speak to act to believe.

    And of course THAT action is in response to the Holy Spirit that "CONVICTS the WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment".

    And in fact "DRAWS ALL MANKIND to God"

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. icthus

    icthus
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    Andrew C Bain's post here is evidence of more Calvinistic nonsense, and a complete ignorance of what Arminians actually teach. The fact that his title says that Arminians make God the author of sin, is done so not reflect facts, but just to cause trouble. It is very evident from the Calvinistic doctrine of God preordaining all things, which makes God the author of sin. Get your facts right ...

    [ May 01, 2005, 04:39 PM: Message edited by: Pastor Larry ]
     
  6. Monergist

    Monergist
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    Hey guys. Before we get too worked up about this guy, check out his website. I'm not sure what he is, but he doesn't represent either side of our discussion here.


    I've seen this guys posts all over the internet, (btw, you can probably find this same exact same post on a wholebunch of message boards). He's probably a budding cult leader looking for recruits. Let's just ignore him.
     
  7. Wes Outwest

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    Let's see,
    Lucifer attempted to usurp the throne of God. God cast Lucifer down to the earth.

    God chose the earth from whose elements He made man and placed him in the idealic Garden in what would be modern day Iraq.

    Man had nothing more to go on than a command from God to not eat of the trees in the midst of the garden lest he shurely die. What is death to Adam, He had never seen it, had no idea of what it might be, had no reason to fear it.

    Then the beguiling serpent, a most beautiful creature (God made it too), appears in the Garden. Keep in mind that Adam did not attend a Baptists church in those days, so he did not have the Baptist perspective on sin and it's results...either.

    Seems if God put all the ingredients together in one place, that sooner or later they would come together and the results would be what God anticipated. After all there is the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world to consider, now isn't there, and how about that Book of Life?

    God may not be the author of Sin, but he certainly is the cause for it happening.

    If you cannot see the truth, don't blame that on God, I got it out of His Word.
     
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan
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    Well - I have a completely DIFFERENT picture "out of God's Word".

    Lucifer was created PERFECT -- and without sin.

    Lucifer CHOSE to indulge himself in pride.

    God CHOSE to allow Lucifer to sin.

    Lucifer CHOSE to tempt and deceive 1/3 of the angels (perfect sinless beings).

    God CHOSE to ALLOW them that debate EVEN knowing the COST and the loss in doing so.

    When Satan (that serpent of OLD) came to earth he was NOT allowed to harrass mankind -- his access was ONLY to the Tree of knowledge of good AND EVIL.

    God CHOSE to allow Satan that ONE TINY piece of realestate.

    In Heb 1 we are told that God ALSO CHOSE to "create WORLDS" through Christ - which means that this world may not have been the only place where there was "such a tree" and indeed such a "portal" and platform where Satan might perch.

    God CHOSE to warn Adam and Eve NOT to have anything to do with JUST ONE TREE out of the entire Garden.

    God CHOSE to allow Adam and Eve to make their OWN CHOICE as to what they would do. Sinless beings whose only desire was to serve God and who had not real reason to seek rebellion --

    Adam and Eve CHOSE to listen to the snake -

    God CHOSE to let them make that CHOICE knowing that it would cost Him the human race -- and indeed the life of His own Son to redeem mankind.

    The Arminian sees a very "Different God" than Calvinism sees.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  9. Wes Outwest

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    It seems the Calvinist is wrong in his view of God!

    God put all the ingredients in the mixing bowl! How is it that ingredients are not suppose to mix?

    Calvinist perspective, as usual does not consider the whole picture.
     
  10. BobRyan

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    It is the Calvinist view that free will stinks because anything that CAN go wrong MUST go wrong given enough time.

    This means that for Calvilnists given enough time all the loyal angels must become demons IF allowed free will. All created intelligent life MUST rebell against God "given enough time" according to Calvinism. For it is "all in the mix" and if it is IN the mix then it MUST get used.

    Every evil deed "possible" MUST be done by ALL living beings if they are allowed choice and "enough time".

    What a wonderful view of God's handiwork Calvinism has!

    It has always been entertaining to see how it "predicts" events.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  11. Wes Outwest

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    Calvinism is in accordance with Murphy's Laws?
     
  12. LaymansTermsPlease

    LaymansTermsPlease
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    Wow, Gnosticism still alive and well in our time. Gotta know the secret Calvinist handshake now in addition to faith in Christ. [​IMG]

    This guy certainly doesn't sound like most Calvinists I know. He sounds more like some of the crowd over at 5Solas.org where I've seen articles in the past stating that you should never consider Arminians saved.
     
  13. LaymansTermsPlease

    LaymansTermsPlease
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  14. LaymansTermsPlease

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  15. Window Wax

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    Quote:

    "All Arminians are lost."

    End Quote

    That's pure ignorance reguardless of which side of the table you are on (Calvinist or Arminian).
     
  16. Wes Outwest

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    Could any of you help me find heaven? I seem to be lost!
     
  17. whetstone

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    Wes, i don't think anyone but the Holy Spirit can. as for the OP- this guy is NOT a traditional Calvinist. I'm kinda confused as to what exactly he is.

    Let's face it- we're ALL born Arminians when we get saved! if this guy is right- no one is saved!!
     
  18. Wes Outwest

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    Hence, my question!
     

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