As a lay person what would you do?

My thoughts are very clearly defined about a situation like this one. I keep things like finances, personal relationships within the family, what my kids got into, or any other such prime movers for jaw flapping in the church as many light years away as I can. That would include details about my job, my wife's job, or my children's jobs. If I ever need prayer of the church, I will ask for it, and from experience, probably in a vague way. There are way, way too many people who use the mask of being concerned about someone's situation for prayer and edification, that use the information as an entertainment time for gossip in remote corners of the church.

This seems to be an element of most any church, and I cannot quite pinpoint why. Even where I just retired from, the same information amongst workers would be kept much quieter and with much less talk. It seems to me it should be just the opposite.

 

If it were me, I would go to the individuals doing all the talking and tell them to stop and stop now, as tactfully as the Lord would allow. If they did not, I would take a deacon or the pastor and request it again. If that fails, since we are talking about business meetings, bring up a motion to have the offending person disfellowshipped for gossip. It is a sin listed in the Bible as much as adultry and drunkedness. If one or two examples were made, I bet it would stop.

 

I don't have any solution but I will give you my opinion about how the staff on a church should function. If a member of the staff cannot get along with the head pastor he should leave unless the head pastor is guilty of misconduct.

 

^^^What he said. The Lord was VERY VERY clear on how we are to handle problems with our brothers and sisters. Too bad nobody does it!

I've watched our church. When The Big Brouhaha hit, I had several people leave and one of them told one of my deacons that she hoped he dropped dead. Wow! How's that for Christian love!? Cooler heads should prevail, but when Satan gets in there, they don't.

And instead of going to their brother or sister and handling it the right way, they get mad and leave. People love to get mad and leave. And they think that they are somehow getting even with the people at the church. When a person "gets mad and leaves" without God's OK, then they can expect to spend some time behind His wood shed.

That is why we have to pray for those who offend us because they are going to go to God's wood shed.

I mean, the church is so much bigger than us! It existed before us. It will exist after we die. It does not belong to us. He paid a price for the church that we will never truly fathom. Yet people bring harm to the church without really thinking about what I just said.

OP, I'm sorry you're caught in this. It is probably time for you to get mad and leave. :tonofbricks:

 

Matthew 18 is for very serious sins and offenses, not light and transient ones. Gossip for the most part is a mere irritation, and unless it has the potential of permanent damage to one's reputation and standing in the community, it's to be ignored. Turn the other cheek, go the extra mile—you know—respond as you would have others respond to you.

 

What if you brought this up during a business meeting, or at the end of a regular service? Maybe you should give your pastor a heads up that it's coming. If he says you shouldn't, don't do it. But otherwise, you could say something like:

"Brothers and sisters I'm concerned about the dissension in our congregation. I cannot believe it is of God. Unresolved conflict will kill this church.

I have avoided taking sides in all this, and still don't want to be part of any church fight. But I want you to know this. I stand with my pastor. God called him here, and he called not a single one of you to be pastor.

I call on every one of you in this church to examine yourself to see if you are contributing to the conflict, and thus aiding Satan himself. Satan has invaded our body, and I would be in fear that my actions my help him do his demonic work.

I don't care which side you are on. I call on all of us to repent and ask for forgiveness, and seek reconciliation with each other.

The only reason I can see for chaos in a church is if there is heresy being taught and preached. Since this is not the case, it's now a question of power. Are any of you really willing to tear this church apart just for the sake of getting your way.

There are many here who have no dog in this fight. They want to worship and fellowship in peace, and if they can't find it here, they'll go where they can. And I may be one of them.

In the meantime, my pastor gets the benefit of the doubt, and gets my loyalty."

Maybe this won't work But it won't get any better by ignoring it or trying to stay above it. So I'm just throwing it out there for everybody to chew on or shoot at.

 

I would do my best to ignore these members who are stirring up discord. If someone were to come to me with a rumor, I would tell them that I suggest we get together with this person and discuss it. If they did not want to do this, I would tell them I did not want to hear what they had to say.

 

Gossip is not a mere irritation. It destroys lives, reputations, and divides churches in half. There are enough problems in themselves. We as flawed humans rank sin. While you might find gossip a mere irritant, and say gambling or drinking a grevious sin, the poison out of a gossip's mouth can cause as much damage as anything else. Try reading James 3:8. If that does not convince you, try Proverbs 6:17 or 19. Try Jude 19. Who do you think the whisperers and backbiters are in Romans 1:29-30? What do the words of the Lord in Matt 15:11 say? What are dissensions in Gal 5:20? Doesn't one of the Ten Commandments relate to gossip, something like false witness? Does the second great commandment relate? No sir, it is not a mere irritation. These are verses just off the top of my head. No doubt there are ones about those who cause dissension within the fellowship.

 

When people come to me with gossip or concerns of others I want to know who the others are. And, if the person want tell me who these others are then I cut them off. I don't want to hear what "others" are saying. Plus, I have found that the "others" is none other than the person bringing the information to you or at least he or she is right in the middle of it.

 

I agree. (inserting spurious characters here to meet the irrational and oppressive minimum character requirement for posting.)

 

Good post. I agree. I would not leave the church over this issue, however, I would find a way, whatever it took, to stop the gossip.

 

Thinkingstuff, I can certainly see where you're coming from. I can understand your reluctance to publicly confront this problem, particularly since there's no guarantee of a positive outcome.

Usually, though, conflicts like this don't resolve themselves.

Where is your pastor in all this?

 

Bingo, this is core of the problem, and this is what must be stopped. These are the people that need a dose of Matthew 18, however far they want to take it.

 

You really think that kind of gossip is worth worrying about? You'll never stop it, Matthew 18 notwithstanding.

TS, so people disparage the pastor's salary; so they disparage your single-income, homeschooling decisions; so they think they're holier than everyone else; so what?

If that's something you want to raise Cain over, I guess that's your perogative, but make sure it's a hill worth dying on, because die on it you will. It's not like you're being accused of something scandalous.

 

Brother,
I have been in a few of these situations as I guess anyone in ministry in a SBC church will sooner or later. I want to say a couple of things:

1. I believe that your strategy to stay out of this conflict will fail to deliver the results you hope. The people who are gossiping already see you as a player in this conflict or you would not be targeted. I have seen it several times...minisers are attacked primarily in their ministry (although personal attacks can occur to), but lay people get attacked viciously if they are seen as having taken sides. This group must feel you have taken sides. The reason that i do not believe that staying out of it will work is that it is never good enough for the gossips once they target you. as long as they are losing, you are still "against them", if they win they equate your being quiet with knowing they would win. God can change hearts, but if He does not, don't expect anything other than what you have seen.
2. I do not, as a rule, tell people to leave a church over problems. The one exception to this rule is when children begin to get hurt. You have a responsibility to make sure that your children are in a good environment. I have seen children, damaged in church fights, who are left with a bad taste for Christ's church. I wish it were not true, but it is.
3. Lastly, if I am reading between the lines correctly, a full-scale civil war is about to break out. It sounds like a group is complaining about the Senior Pastor's salary (which is really about something else they do not like about him)...in particular the raise he is about to get; the new pastor, helping the dissension along, is turning down his raise- which makes the Senior Pastor look bad. I have seen this exact situation in a friend's church. If the new pastor is talking about leaving (which he likely is if people are saying that they will leave with him), then he is making power plays. I personally have not seen things get that bad and then work themselves out. Usually a war erupts, only ending when one side leaves. Sad but true. You, your family and your church are in my prayers.

 

The sin of gossip needs to be taken a little more seriously than a wink and a nod. It is very destructive to any local church, which is how the Lord carries out His work. We harp all day on lotteries, drinking, cheating, etc and make lite of something as much if not more destructive. One may not be able to put a total stop to it, (as you cannot the other) but you can stop the offenders that are destroying your church, and maybe the lesser offenders will get the message.