As Many As Were Ordained To Eternal Life Believed

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Mark Osgatharp, Nov 6, 2005.

  1. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    It is evident from numerous Scriptures that none but believers are ordained to eternal life. This was true in Adams day and it is true in ours. John the Baptist put it most succinctly when he said,

    "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life. He that believeth not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him."

    What, then are we to make of those of whom, when Paul preached Jesus in Antioch of Syria, it is said that,

    "as many as were ordained unto eternal life believed."

    There can be no doubt about two things:

    1. These people were ordained to eternal life at some point before they believed Paul's message.

    2. The reason they believed Paul's message is because they were ordained to eternal life.

    So who were these people and when were they ordained to eternal life. To understand this we must understand the ministry of Paul and the other apostles.

    The fact is often overlooked that a great part of the apostles ministry was to inform God's people that Messiah had come in the person of Jesus Chirst. The Lord had children - true Old Covenant believers - scattered throughout the whole world who were waiting on Messiah but had not yet heard that He had come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth.

    When these people heard the news of Jesus, they invariably accepted it. These are they of whom Jesus said,

    "Other sheep have I which are not of this fold; them also must I bring and they shall hear my voice."

    This is undoubtedly the class of people in the synagogue at Antioch who were ordained unto eternal life and so believed. They were ordained to eternal life at some point in their lives when they came to trust in Messiah. The message they "believed" on that day was that Messiah had come in the person of Jesus Christ.

    By contrast, those who did not believe proved that they were not worthy of eternal life, for the only men in this world who are or have ever been worthy of eternal life are those who believe.

    There is not hint that those who rejected Paul could not at some subsequent time believe and be ordained unto eternal life. It is only said that by rejected the message of the descended, crucified, and risen Messiah they proved their true characters as ungodly men with no real faith in God and therefore no hope of eternal life.

    Thus I have given a lucid and face value interpretation of the text which takes into account all the Bible says on the matter and does not force the words into a Calvinist mold.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  2. whatever

    whatever
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    Hey Mark,

    Are you worthy of eternal life?
     
  3. King James Bond

    King James Bond
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    Mark,

    I myself am really convinced with the London Baptist Confession of faith as well as the Heidelberg Catechism and other reformed teachings that supply Scripture to back up what they say.

    What I mean to say is I have no free choice in the matter but am really quite convicted and unable to change my views on basic fundamentals.

    http://www.creeds.net/baptists/1689bc.html

    I agree with Chapters 3, 5, and 10-18.

    Those chapters proclaim in truth and with proof text to back up what they proclaim.

    I agree with other chapters also but was only using those in regard to your topic.

    Hope you take a few minutes to browse through them and let me know what you think.

    KJB
     
  4. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Whatever,

    By my wanton rebellion against God and His word, I am worthy of the lowest damnation of hell. I am not worthy of the least of the Lord's blessing, not to stoop down and unloosen His shoe.

    But my acceptance of Christ as the only redemption for my sin, I have been made worthy of the kingdom of God. As it is written,

    "Who has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light."

    And,

    "But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage."

    Furthermore, those who reject the Lord by rejecting His gospel prove themselves to be unworthy of eternal life, as did those at Antioch who heard the gospel and rejected it. As Paul told them,

    "seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworhty of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles."

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  5. HanSola2000

    HanSola2000
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    Ipostedthis toCassidy on another thread about this verse:

    Cass you are twisting what Alford said. He shows, FROMTHE CONTEXT, that the Jews judgedthemselves unworthy of eternallife and thrust the Word of God from them. But the Gentiles had no such hostile attitude and as many as had a desiring or disposed to eternal life--i.e., the message of the apostles, they believed.

    You are misrepresenting Alford.

    And think about this. If the verse means literally what most people think as it is rendered in the KJV, then NONE OF US ARE NOW SAVED. How so? Becasue it says " AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE... what did that group do? believed. How many? As many as were ordained to eternal life. Do you get this? It means that all the elect were there that day, and they believed. No more salvation after this, because as many as were ordained to eternal life believed! Hello! If this verse actually taught pre-ordination to life by God upon man, then election was closed on that day.

    You see, there is no ordination to eternal life here, but a dispostion to eternal life, IN CONTRAST to the Jews, who were hostile to it.

    If you're gonna take it the way the KJV seems to read, take it all the way. Salvation ended for all men here, for AS MANY AS WERE ORDAINED TO ETERNAL LIFE...this is the whole group of the elect, BELIEVED, past tense. So we're all lost and non-elect.
     
  6. whatever

    whatever
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    Mark,

    You say
    Where do you get this from? What of those like Judas who trusted in Messiah but did not recognize Jesus as the promised Messiah? What of Jews today who still wait for their Messiah?

    You say
    The passage says that those who were ordained to eternal life believed. Why do you reverse the order?
     
  7. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Whatever,

    I did not reverse the order. I said explicitly that these people were ordained to eternal life at some time prior to believing Paul's message.

    You say they were ordained to eternal life when God predestinated them to believe. I say they were ordained to eternal lifewhen they first trusted in Messiah and that they accepted Jesus as the Messiah when they heard Paul's message.

    Neither my nor your interpretation is specified in the text. I consider my interpretation the correct one because it is the only interpretation which is consistent with the context and the other teachings of other Scriptures.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  8. whatever

    whatever
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    Mark,

    Again, you said
    That's where you reversed the order, as if later if they believed they would then be ordained to eternal life. Maybe that's not what you meant though, so if not, what did you mean?
     
  9. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Whatever,

    Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Those who did believe that Jesus was the Messiah believed so because they were already believers in the Messiah and therefore already ordained unto eternal life. The only people who are ever ordained to eternal life are believers.

    If the others had at some subsequent time believed they would have at that time been ordained to eternal life.

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  10. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Whatever,

    Here are some questions for you:

    1. Were there any believers in the world before the first advent of Christ?

    2. Were those believers ordained to eternal life?

    3. What did the Old Covenant believers who were ordained to eternal life do when they heard the message that Christ had come in the person of Jesus?

    4. Where does the Bible say that any unbeliever was ordained to eternal life?

    5. Where does the Bible say that the men who received Paul's message at Antioch were unbelievers before Paul went there?

    Mark Osgatharp
     
  11. whatever

    whatever
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    Hi Mark,

    1. Yes

    2. Yes

    3. I assume you mean those who had not already died. Some believed immediately. Others still weren't quite sure even after he had risen from the dead (Matt. 28:17). Others had to be blinded on the road to Damascus before they would believe.

    4. Romans 8 and Ephesians 1, among others.

    5. Where does it say that the Gentiles who believed in verse 48 were ordained for eternal life because they had previously believed in the coming Messiah? And why did the Jews who were waiting for their Messiah reject the gospel while the Gentiles who were waiting for the same Messiah believed the gospel?
     
  12. Mark Osgatharp

    Mark Osgatharp
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    Matthew 28:17 says they doubted the resurrection. It does not say that they doubted Jesus was the Messiah. All of the true believers accepted Jesus as the Messiah, even though they were in the dark about many other things.

    So quote the words if they are there.

    Right next to the verse that says they were ordained to eternal life before the foundation of the word.

    I can't believe you would even make such a statement in light of John chapter 10 (or John chapter 8 or John chapter 5). The Jews who rejected Jesus were not waiting for the same Messiah as the ones who accepted Him; if they had been they would have accepted Him when He came.

    Mark Osgatharp
     

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