Assumption of Mary

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ps104_33, Sep 4, 2006.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
    Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home. (John 19:26-27)

    Jesus left his earthly Mother Mary in the Apostle John's charge to care for her. I think we can all agree that John probably out lived Mary.
    Why doesnt John mention such a spectacular event as the assumption, body and soul, of Mary into heaven anywhere in the Bible?
    One could make the argument that her death isnt mentioned either. But that would further prove that the apostles didnt elevate Mary to the position that the Roman Church does.
     
  2. orthodox

    orthodox
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2006
    Messages:
    147
    Likes Received:
    0
    He doesn't mention it because he didn't write a book like Acts which chronicles the church after Jesus' assumption. One might just as well ask why John doesn't write his own Acts or his own Romans or any number of interesting things he could have written.
     
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    To see just how silly this ideah of mariolotry gets inside of the RCC --

    Just look at the story the tell themselves on this subject --

     
    #3 BobRyan, Sep 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 5, 2006
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    you may go to give greeting to the honour and wonder-working of the mother of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, because the day of her departure is at hand, of her going up into the heavens.
     
  5. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    One could also ask, why there is no further presence of Joseph, the supposed father of Christ, after the scene in the Temple?
     
  6. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why doesn't the Bible mention such a spectacular event as the assumption of the Ark of the Old Covenant, when we last see it, it is in the Temple of God in Heaven in Revalations 11?
     
  7. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2001
    Messages:
    4,005
    Likes Received:
    0
    If the RC Church worshipped the Ark of the covenant and Joseph, I would be asking the same question.
     
  8. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    They don't worship Mary. It's just an ignorant belief.

    In order to worship Mary, one must recognize her as a God. I have not met a Catholic that acknowledges her as a God yet. And I don't think I ever will. It's just an ignorant and unstable recognization as to what worship really is.

    What does it mean to worship a diety?
     
  9. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    Is it ignorant to admit that they pray to the dead and "worship at Mary's Altars" - or is it better to just place head-in-sand and ignore what they are doing?

    WORSHIP at Mary’s Altars



    Let the reader decide.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. BobRyan

    BobRyan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2002
    Messages:
    30,837
    Likes Received:
    4
    The SAME reverence given to the family gods and dead ancestors is given to the "Dead in Christ" according to the RCC.

    Even the Hindus admit that the "lesser gods" are simply prayed TO while the 3 main powerful god's are highly reveared.

    Catholic Digest 12/1994 pg 129

    The Rosary is, unsurprisingly, Not mentioned in the Bible. Legend and history place its beginning in the 13th century long After the Bible was completed. As a Pagan practice, praying on counting beads goes back centuries before Christ…

    Buddhists use prayer wheels and prayer beads for the same purpose… Counting prayer beads is common practice in religious cultures”.


    Cath Digest 9/1993 pg 129
    Question:
    “My husband has been transferred to Japan and we have been here in Hiroshima for about two months. On a site seeing tour the Japanese guide brought me to a Buddhist shrine. There were statues of Buddha everywhere. The guide told me they represented different aspects of life and that the people offer food to the Buddhas and ask for Favors. It made me think of Our Catholic praying to the saints and wonder whether they have anything like the Ten Commandments to guide them.

    There were fountains at the gate where pious visitors washed their hands before entering the shrine grounds. Could this be the same as our holy water?”

    Ans:
    “Very probably the physical washing signifies some kind of spiritual cleansing, AS it does with Us! Some Muslims say prayers on rosary-like beads Just as We do, so there is no copyright enforced on prayerful customs among the great world religions. The Pagan Romans prayed, each family to its Own household gods, JUST as we do to our patron saints. In Old Testament times the gentile had local gods for their town or country, and our Christian Saints eventually supplanted Them!

    The Hebrews, of Course, had the mission of Wiping Out such heathen worship with the worship of the one true God, and while they have always had great respect for spiritual heroes, they Never set up any of their own race as substitutes for the local pagan gods!!
    They had no need to make distinctions between praying TO the saints for their intercession with god and total adoration of God as the source of everything, as we must![/b]
    ..
    You ask about the Buddhists having anything like the Ten Commandments to go by. The answer is that [b] have Nine of the Ten. Only the specific seventh day being held holy would be Beyond the reach of ordinary right reason.”


    In keeping with this model described by Catholic Digest – we find this prayer to St. Jude.

    By contrast we have the following prayer to "the dead in Christ"
    (as Paul calls them) – A prayer to St. Jude.

    <
    faithful servant and friend of Jesus...
    ... the Church honors and invokes you
    universally as the patron of hopeless cases,
    of things despaired of.
    Pray for me who am so miserable;
    make use,
    I implore you,
    of this particular privilege accorded to you,
    to bring visible and speedy help,
    where help is almost despaired of.
    Come to my assistance in this great need......
    in ALL my necessities,
    tribulations and sufferings,
    particularly (here make your request),
    and that I may bless God with you
    and all the elect forever.

    I promise you,
    O blessed St. Jude,
    to be ever mindful of this great favor,
    and I will never cease to honor you
    as my special and powerful patron
    and to do all in my power
    to encourage devotion to you.

    Amen.>>



    Notice that although in 1Cor 3 – Paul is directing the people of God to shun the cult-of-personality that would “recruit devotees to a given church leader” – yet this is exactly the focus of the prayer to the dead that we see in this example of the prayer to St. Jude.
    Where in all of scripture are God’s people told to seek devotees who would perform devotions to them? Notice that Peter “attempts” to go down that road in Matt 17 – and the author tells us that he “did not know what he was saying”. As if Peter is insane or out of his mind due to the magnitude of the moment.
     
  11. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is just a letter from an overzealous Pope. It is not a letter written ex-cathedra. this is 56 years old. Do you not have anything new to give us. I have been in a number of Catholic Churches, I have yet to see an "Altar of Mary". So I have to conclude that his pope was speaking symbolically. Nothing more, nothing less. I notices you posted this on another thread here as well. Is that the best you can do, is copy and paste a portion of some obscure writing? Can you show us from the RCC Catechism that Mary worship is required or at the least encouraged? BTW, if you do not know, the RCC Catechism is the only offiicial textbook of RCC Dogma and Doctrine. I have read it in it's entirety in order to try an understand the RCC. Unless I have missed something, can you show where the RCC teaches the RCC people to worship Mary?
     
  12. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Again you are citing articles from magazines over a decade old. Articles are not official teachings of the RCC. Only the Catechism fits that bill. Unless of course you can provide some Scholarship that says there is some other written source of RCC teaching that is approved and official.

    In Christ, I M.
     
  13. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    At the end Roman Catholic is totally different from Christianity based on the Bible, It is another religion, not Christian.
     
  14. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    That is your opinion. Just remember that when standing in front of Christ on the Day. I suggest you purchase the writings of the Early Church Fathers, a 38 volume set larger than most Encyclopedias. And discover what the ECFs believed. It is for the most part contrary to modern christianity.
     
  15. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    No, Bible is enough to teach me everything necessary to reject all the fable about the pagan goddess worship.

    Read Jeremiah 44 and Colossians 2:18
    18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
     
  16. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're stuck like a broken record, you can't get beyond the current groove.

    Really: to "worship" Mary would require that the *intellect* makes a firm decision to believe that Mary is Divine or that she created the world. Even the most uneducated catholic, I believe, does not make that kind of intellectual decision. Thus, Mary cannot be worshipped unless a person claims, with full intellect, that she is divine. Case closed.
     
  17. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nope! Catholic says more than that.

    Catholic calls Mary as Mother of God, which implies that once she give birth to someone, that becomes God, thus call Mary as Mother of God, on top of God, Goddess producing God ( actually pagan gods).

    Word play doesn't mean much, just watch CLAND, Catholic TV channel, then no one except RC's can deny that RC is worshipping goddess, statue of idol Mary!

    That's why RC creates all the story about Mary, lifetime virgin Mary, Assumption of Mary, Mother of God, Mother of Church, Queen of Heaven, Redmptrix, Co-Redeemer Mary, etc.
     
    #17 Eliyahu, Sep 6, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2006
  18. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,762
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you heard about this ?

    "Lifetime Virgin Mary, Perpetual Virgin Mary loved the world so much that she gave her only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life.

    Without Merciful Mary, the world redemption was absolutely impossible."

    Is this what you want to claim ?
     
  19. Chemnitz

    Chemnitz
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    2,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is likely the case where officially they do not worship Mary but in practice they do. The Reformers remarked in the Apology to the Augsburg Confession

    I will have to admit the statues of Mary I have seen with candles around them strike me as rather similar to the idols in the Hindu temple I visited once.
     
  20. Inquiring Mind

    Inquiring Mind
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Messages:
    425
    Likes Received:
    0
    Mary gave birth to Jesus.
    Jesus did not become God.
    Jesus was God Incarnate.
    Mary gave birth to a God.
    That does make her a Goddess.
    Mary is the Mother of God the Son.
    contracted down to
    Mary is the Mother of God
    in the same manner that would not is contracted down to wouldn't
    Catholics deny that Mary is on top of God.

    Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a misapprehension of not only what this particular title of Mary signifies but also who Jesus was, and what their own theological forebears, the Protestant Reformers, had to say regarding this doctrine.

    A woman is a man’s mother either if she carried him in her womb or if she was the woman contributing half of his genetic matter or both. Mary was the mother of Jesus in both of these senses; because she not only carried Jesus in her womb but also supplied all of the genetic matter for his human body, since it was through her—not Joseph—that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh" (Rom. 1:3).

    Since Mary is Jesus’ mother, it must be concluded that she is also the Mother of God: If Mary is the mother of Jesus, and if Jesus is God, then Mary is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism, the valid form of which has been recognized by classical logicians since before the time of Christ.

    Although Mary is the Mother of God, she is not his mother in the sense that she is older than God or the source of her Son’s divinity, for she is neither. Rather, we say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine person—Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" (2 John 7, cf. John 1:14)—and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

    To avoid this conclusion, Fundamentalists often assert that Mary did not carry God in her womb, but only carried Christ’s human nature. This assertion reinvents a heresy from the fifth century known as Nestorianism, which runs aground on the fact that a mother does not merely carry the human nature of her child in her womb. Rather, she carries the person of her child. Women do not give birth to human natures; they give birth to persons. Mary thus carried and gave birth to the person of Jesus Christ, and the person she gave birth to was God.

    The Nestorian claim that Mary did not give birth to the unified person of Jesus Christ attempts to separate Christ’s human nature from his divine nature, creating two separate and distinct persons—one divine and one human—united in a loose affiliation. It is therefore a Christological heresy, which even the Protestant Reformers recognized. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin insisted on Mary’s divine maternity. In fact, it even appears that Nestorius himself may not have believed the heresy named after him. Further, the "Nestorian" church has now signed a joint declaration on Christology with the Catholic Church and recognizes Mary’s divine maternity, just as other Christians do.

    Since denying that Mary is God’s mother implies doubt about Jesus’ divinity, it is clear why Christians (until recent times) have been unanimous in proclaiming Mary as Mother of God.

    The Church Fathers, of course, agreed, and the following passages witness to their lively recognition of the sacred truth and great gift of divine maternity that was bestowed upon Mary, the humble handmaid of the Lord.
     
    #20 Inquiring Mind, Sep 6, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 6, 2006

Share This Page

Loading...