Assurance Of Hope

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Ztheberean, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. Ztheberean

    Ztheberean
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    Assurance of Hope

    Those who have the mind of Christ can spiritually judge all things because they have received the things of the Spirit which things are not with words from man’s wisdom, but that which the Holy Spirit teaches which compares spiritual with spiritual (1Cor 2:16-13); this is so that our faith would stand in the power of God and not with the enticing words of men. (2:5-4)

    Once we believe in Jesus, we need to come to learn, under His light yoke of repentant faith so that we could be instructed and have rest (the holy understanding, see Prov 9:10) for our souls. (Matt 11:28-29 cf. Jer 31:18-19) This form of teaching causes obedience from our hearts so that we would no longer serve sin; but become servants of righteousness (Rom 6:17-18 with Titus 2:12); unto holiness (Rom 6:22). Because ALL scripture should be given unto us for our instruction in righteousness, we can be perfected to go on to do good works. (2Tim 3:16-17) These are the servants who labor among us (in the word) who are to be highly esteemed because of this loving work. This is how we live in peace. (5:12-13)

    Those who have the full assurance of hope are diligently following after those who have inherited the promises (of God) through faith and patience. (Heb 6:11-12) These (who have inherited the promises) are laboring in the love that ministers to the saints (with the word of God). These are the meek and patient servants of the Lord who are instructing those who are opposing themselves so that God might grant repentance unto the acknowledging of the truth that they can be recovered from doing the devil’s will. (2Tim 2:24-26) For we need to receive the rain (the word) often upon us so that we might bring forth the herbs (of repentant faith) and receive blessings from God. (Heb 6:7) Christ needs to free us from our bondage to sin so that we may go on to patiently wait through the Spirit for the hope of the righteous and loving ability (Gal 5:1 & 5-6); so that we can serve others by love. (5:13) These are the things that accompany salvation. (Heb 6:10-9) Remember just a little leaven (which is false doctrine) will leaven the whole church. (Gal 5:8) Are you being hindered from obeying this truth? (5:7)

    This is why Jesus warned us to beware of the doctrine of the religious leaders (Matt 16:12); who omit the teaching of the doctrine of Christ which has us lay the foundation of repentance for true faith towards God so that we might go on to (Christian) perfection. (born again experience which is a process not instantly attained by a prayer as they teach) And this we will do, if God permits. (Heb 6:1&3) We cannot even know the will of God to do it without this doctrine. (Jn 7:17) This is why God sends (To His elect) one of His servants (1Thess 3:2, 1Cor 4:17,Eph 6:21, Rom 10:15) (we don’t go find our own teacher) who speaks His words (Jn 3:34); which words are not with enticing words of man’s wisdom but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power (1Cor 2:4); which compares spiritual with spiritual so that our faith would stand in the power of God, not in the wisdom of men. (2:13&5) Those who have this hope CAN purify themselves (because they are asking God to help them) even as He is pure. For we know that those who commit sin transgress the law and He (Jesus) was manifested to take away our sins. (1Jn 3:3-5) Don’t be deceived, those who do righteousness are righteous, even as He is righteous. (3:7) A willingness to be here is acceptable to God. (2Cor 8:12) For He first gives us a willingness and then causes us to do these good things for His good pleasure. (Phil 2:13)

    Those who are born of God cannot continue in sin (without confession) because His seed (His word) remains in them. (3:9) These (and those who are willing) can cleanse themselves from all filthiness of flesh (actions) and spirit (thoughts) in the fear of God so that they can perfect holiness. (2Cor 7:1) The fear of the Lord is to hate all evil and pride and every false way to come unto God. (Prov 8:13) Being holy is having understanding. (Prov 9:10) For we know that there can be no conversion unto being healed without understanding. (Matt 13:15, Jn 12:40, Acts 28:27) This is the good hope which we can receive through (the teaching of) grace that will comfort our hearts and establish us so that we can do every good work and word. (2Thess 2:16-17) This is why we need to ask God to work His truth into us so that it’s light would come out of us (Jn 3:21); without which we will be under the new condemnation of believing in Jesus while practicing evil deeds now that the light has come. (3:19&16) It’s all about God’s workmanship upon us (now that we believe) to create us in Christ so that we could do good. (Eph 2:10) This is the gift of God so that we would not boast (2:8) ; without which God will send a strong delusion unto us to believe a lie because we would not receive this truth but rather had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Thess 2:11-12)

    God chooses us unto salvation through the sanctifying (process) of the Spirit and belief of this truth so that we can become obedient. (2Thess 2:13, 1Pet 1:2) Without our crucifixion with Christ we will continue to live in the flesh without the faith of the Son of God who loved us enough to give Himself for us. And we will frustrate this (teaching of the) grace of God. (Gal 2:20-21) Rather let us ask God to (make us willing to) crucify our old man so that the body of sin would be destroyed so that we would no longer serve sin. (Rom 6:6-8) This is the form of doctrine that needs to be obeyed from the heart so that we can become servants of righteousness unto holiness.(6:17-18&22) And we know that the holy is the understanding. (Prov 9:10) Are you subject to this hope? (Rom 8:20) Then you know that we are saved by this hope (8:24); which hope will have us patiently waiting on the Spirit for the righteous and loving ability (Gal 5:5-6) ; after we have been freed by Christ from the yoke of bondage (to sin) (Gal 5:1) so that we can go on in the liberty that serves others by (this) love. (5:13)

    Let us ask for this hope which is within the promises of God (Acts 26:6); so that you would know that all of God’s promises are Yes and Amen. (2Cor 1:20) Then you would also know that He who establishes us in Christ is God; who also seals those who are His with the seal that has the evidence of being seen to have departed from iniquity after naming the name of Christ. (2Cor1:21-22& 2Tim 2:19) Let us command God to work these good things into us (Is 45:11, Eph 2:10); so that we may love our Lord Jesus Christ within sincerity. Amen. ( Eph 6:24)

    Love rejoices in the truth that reveals grace,

    Ztheberean
    1Cor 13:6, Col 1:6
     
  2. billwald

    billwald
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    Seems a circular concept: assurance of hope = hope of assurance?
     
  3. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: It is obvious that the post referred to by Bill was lengthy and had many facets to consider, but of all the questions that one could ask I cannot see for a minute why one would make the comment that Bill makes. Sorry Bill I just don’t understand your conclusion.

    Overall I would give the post by Ztheberean a hearty Amen. It appeared to me to be sound advice to take our relationship with the Lord to a new level and seek God for the influence to establish our hearts in holiness and love.

    I wonder what some others thought about Ztheberean’s post?
     
  4. BobRyan

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    2 Cor 5 -- "IF anyone is IN Christ Jesus HE IS a NEW CREATION"

    not "IF anyone is in Christ FOR ENOUGH YEARS he will EVENTUALLY be a new creation"

    to claim that the new birth - the new creation is something that requires years of effort and striving is to ignore the text on this point.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  5. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: The issue addressed by Ztheberean ‘as I saw it,’ was not concerning salvation, or the becoming of a new creation in Christ, but rather of the sanctification or the establishment of the believer. It is one thing to become a new creation in Christ and wholly another to walk a consistent holy life before God in sanctification.

    One of the greatest evangelists to ever grace our shores saw this need with great clarity at the end of his journey on this earth. After laboring for the salvation of souls for years, he said something to the effect that if he had it all over to do again he would spend a greater amount of time dealing with the pressing need of the Church, i.e. the sanctification of the believer. It is a largely overlooked and misunderstood issue. The enemy of our souls would like nothing more than confuse this most important issue. I believe the following verse gives us clear admonishment to seek a deeper work in our Christian walk.

    Heb 6:1 ¶ Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

    I do not believe that there is any way to maintain a consistent, sure, hope of eternal life as a believer apart from such a life of sanctification. May we find that place of rest dear to our souls!
     
  6. Ztheberean

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    ASSURANCE OF HOPE To HP

    Thank you HP for your blessed observation that our separation is all about sanctification, or going on UNTO perfection, which is in the doctrine of Christ that comes with the gospel of peace as the glad tidings (Heb. 6:1 with Rom. 10:15). Anyone who comes unto us with the gospel without this doctrine of God in Christ should not be received (Jn. 7:17 with 2Jn. 1:9-10). Some of the amazing results of this doctrine within its sobering controlling influence are found in Titus 2:10-14, wherein it is said that this doctrine has the teaching of the grace of God, which is to come upon all men for salvation. Transgressors of the doctrine of grace are deceivers; and those who call themselves in Christ without it are merely antichrist (2Jn. 1:10-9 and 8). I marvel at how soon this grace of Christ is removed from the gospel presentation of most people, who in turn seek only to trouble those who have it (Gal. 1:6-7). For it pleased God who calls us by grace to thus separate us unto Himself (Gal. 1:15). This doctrine of the grace from God our Father and our Lord Jesus Christ is all about the will of God (Gal. 1:3-4). Amazingly this presentation of GRACE, GRACE is set forth within the first few verses of 17 of the 24 books that make up the NT. So anyone who is without the teaching of grace for our separation in the NT, or in Christ is without excuse. The grace of God 101, you will note, has the beginning of our separation unto God occurring before we are born from our mother’s womb (Gal. 1:15). Those without the grace of Christ, (although they say that they are IN Christ) cannot be in agreement with this definition of BY grace (Gal. 1:6 & 15). This is because they have not been delivered from what is evil in this world unto being in accordance with the will of God (Gal. 1:4). What is evil, by inference, is all about what is not according to the will of God. Paul cautions us about the importance of being able to receive the spiritual gifting of grace (the fruit of grace) for our separation unto the gospel, which needs to be imparted unto us, if we are going to be understanding brethren, who are not ignorant of this doctrinal teaching (Rom. 1:11 and 13 with 1). As we can all see, to have one of two word presentations of the amazingness of grace, could be dangerous, and so this is why I believe that this expository should be supported and enlarged upon. I therefore exhort all who are led of God in the Spirit of Christ to encourage this oft left out testimony to be rather set forth. Your voice of support should sound out, if you do not wish to only hear from those who seek to trouble those who have this testimony. It is with this charge that I beseech you to openly show your support by requesting that this gracious doctrine of God in Christ should be presented for the glory of our Lord God, in Jesus’ name. Amen.
     
  7. BobRyan

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    This we can all agree too and say the amen!

    Agreed.


    This is what is objectionable since it "appears" that the "born again" experience is not a singular EVENT at the time of conversion but must be "ATTAINED" over a long period of time.

    Basically I find this point of error being mixed into a rather long doctrinal statement having a lot of truth in it.

    To Z I would say "It is with this charge that I beseech you to diligently search out the truth from scripture alone regarind the New Birth"

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #7 BobRyan, Dec 3, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2006
  8. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Bob, are you to now take the position that salvation is totally accomplished by one act of faith? Why would that not be anything short of pure antimonianism?

    No one, that I am aware of, is trying to eliminate an act of faith as being the threshold of salvation, (at least I do not believe that Z is trying to establish such a point.) What I see Z establishing is that salvation is NOT simply an act of faith but also encompasses ones walk with the Lord, and if I am not mistaken, would also incorporate the final judgment as being part of the salvation process. Yes, salvation comes not by growth but by an act of faith ‘in a sense,’ yet just the same salvation is a process that is not culminated until the final judgment and will be accomplished 'in a sense' by the means of present obedience. It is pointless to argue for or against salvation as a one time act of faith, for in a sense it is and in another sense it is not. One thing Scripture makes clear is that salvation is thought of in three tenses, not simply one. We have been saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved in the end, “IF.”

    No one can lay a sure hope, ‘in retrospect,’ of ones final resting place with God, based simply upon an initial act of faith, while in possession of an evil conscience. Our final and eternal salvation, although entered into by an act of faith, is accomplished only as our wills are set upon full and consistent obedience to God and His Word in repentance, present obedience and holiness through the willful intent and choice to yield ourselves to the persuasive empowerment of the Holy Spirit upon our lives.

    We have been saved, we are being saved, and we will eventually be saved, ‘IF WE CONTINUE” in perseverance until the end. Any salvation that is preached that does not incorporate this Scriptural admonition and command of perseverance, is not according to the faith once delivered unto the saints. It is not over until it is over. We must stay true and faint not if we are to be eternally saved.
     
  9. BobRyan

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    Well as you know I do not find any Bible support for the doctrine of OSAS. At the same time I believe that if a person died the day they are converted - they remain saved - they remain born again - they are already accepted by God.

    The new birth happens at conversion.

    But I agree that sanctification is the work of lifetime.

    Salvation is accomplished in a moment - but sanctifcation is perseverance for a lifetime. Salvation is lost when a person chooses to return to rebellion and live for self.






    Agreed

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  10. Heavenly Pilgrim

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    HP: Salvation, in the complete sense, is perseverance for a lifetime as well Bob, is it not? Can one be saved, apart from being sanctified 'in a sense?'

    I personally do not like the term, ‘losing ones salvation,’ for in this world we have hope. We can indeed lose our hope, but how can you lose something you have not, nor can in this world, gain cognizance of the reality of its final form (i.e., absolute knowledge) except by faith?

    Certainly we have entered into a hope of eternal life, and if we continue we will in fact received our promised inheritance in the next, but losing something held by faith would better be described, IMO, as losing ones assurance, than losing ones salvation.


    In this world, when one states they have ‘received salvation,’ are they not in reality conveying the notion of their 'assurance by faith' of salvation, not the 'final reality' accompanied by absolute knowledge, in actuality?

     
  11. Ztheberean

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    To BOB

    This is why Jesus warned us to beware of the doctrine of the religious leaders (Matt 16:12); who omit the teaching of the doctrine of Christ which has us lay the foundation of repentance for true faith towards God so that we might go on to (Christian) perfection. (born again experience which is a process not instantly attained by a prayer as they teach) And this we will do, if God permits. (Heb 6:1&3)


    Hi Bob,
    You will note the whole point of the above statement is my rejection of the concept of being born again by the sinners prayer. The above statement was never meant to set forth the entire doctrine of the born again experience. You will also note that the above statement generally, specifically, and definitively places all things associated with being born again in God's hands. I think we can agree together that the intent of the above statement was to get mens hands out of God's workmanship.

    I would appreciate your thoughts on this concept. And thank you for your participation.
     
  12. BobRyan

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    Conversion happens at the moment that the sinner "alone and on the inside" opens the door of Rev 3 -- and Christ comes in as promised.

    "for IF ANYONE IS in Christ Jesus he IS a new creation" 2Cor 5.

    It happens at the moment of conversion - which is the moment of salvation according to Romans 10.

    I do not doubt that God alone "draws all mankint to him" and God alone "stands at the door and knocks" and God alone CAUSES the miracle of the New Birth.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  13. BobRyan

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    I agree that we are to "pursue sanctification without which no one will inherit eternal life"

    But I do not agree that the new Birth does not happen UNTIL we are fully mature and sanctified in growth. In Heb 5 Paul argues for growth in sanctification but does not argue that the saints are not really born again until they measure up.



    "IF" you define salvation as "glorification" at the 2nd coming rapture and resurrection of the dead in Christ -- then you have a point to some extent.

    But to do that is to lose the important concept of the New Birth which you DO have now EVEN if you later reject it and turn back again to your old unsaved ways.

    And the New Birth is KEY to understanding how mankind - lost in sin and depraved in nature is enabled to experience salvation and freedom here and now. In this life.

    "Having been justified by grace you HAVE peace with God" - Rom 5. This happens NOW in the new Birth - in the saved walk with Christ.

    In Rom 8 Paul says "IF by Spirit you ARE putting to death the deeds of the flesh then you ARE the children of God".

    In Gal 2:20 Paul says "I am crucified with Christ and so NOW I no longer live but Jesus Christ NOW lives in me".

    Rev 3 has Christ COMING IN at the MOMENT you open the door - not some year in the future when you are "sanctified enough".

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  14. Ztheberean

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    To Bob Ryan

    Bob Ryan Said: Conversion happens at the moment that the sinner "alone and on the inside" opens the door of Rev 3 -- and Christ comes in as promised.

    "for IF ANYONE IS in Christ Jesus he IS a new creation" 2Cor 5.

    It happens at the moment of conversion - which is the moment of salvation according to Romans 10.

    I do not doubt that God alone "draws all mankint to him" and God alone "stands at the door and knocks" and God alone CAUSES the miracle of the New Birth.

    In Christ,

    Bob

    Dear Bob;
    Thank you for your comments, which lump all things together in one lump.

    Paul tells us that Christ needs to be formed in those who have already believed. And that we can be in doubt of these believers, until such time as this forming of Christ in them takes place (Gal. 4:19-20). Christ walking into the believer is therefore subject to God creating Him in them under His workmanship. This is the definition of by grace through faith (Eph. 2:10-8).

    The first move of conversion, which has three parts is found in [1] our turning away from sin; and then [2] our coming into the light; and [3] then our ability to love. All of this is set forth as a process, which is not optional for our conversion. Within true conversion, those in sin also need to come out of their errors against the truth (Jm. 5:19). Without understanding, we cannot be converted (Ac. 28:27). Paul to the whole church of Rome [believers] tells them that while their faith is spoken of in all the world, they are not established in the mutual faith, and are in need of the spiritual impartation (Rom. 1:11-12). Without which they would be ignorant brethren (1:13). Paul knew that Christ could not be formed in us by God’s workmanship, if we were ignorant. This is why the Scripture speaks of from faith to faith (Rom. 1:17).

    You might work on this theme, because I believe that God will meet you here, and help you to understand this important doctrine. Should you need any further help please feel free to ask. All of your respectful requests will be rewarded with positive edifying responses.
     
  15. BobRyan

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    I beg to differ.

    Gal 4 does not tell us to be in doubt of those that are born again but have not been walking in faith long enough to reach some magic point where christ is finally formed in them.

    The point of Gal 4 has to do with those who returned to the practices and forms of paganism connected with emperor worship. This is not a command to judge or doubt other Christians - it is a case of warning those who are actively going astray to return to Christ.

    In 2Cor 5 we have the promise given to ALL who have accepted Christ that at the moment of conversion - we are a new creation for at that very moment we are "in Christ" -

    The model you suggest would say that EVEN if you accept Christ as your savior today - IF you are unfortunate enough to actually die today as well then you are still "toast" because you did not "live long enough" to actually have Christ in you.

    As much as I reject OSAS and as much as I fully agree with your stand on growing in Christ - I can not go to the limit you are going.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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